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foreign

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foreign

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foreign

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from the Steel City at video good

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evening good morning good afternoon

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wherever you may be Across the Nation

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around the world my name is Leah Prime

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and this is the invisible night school

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for those of you just joining us the

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invisible night school is a small

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Consortium of lay researchers and

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Scholars pursuing the study and

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exploration of ufology

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High strangeness and the phenomena ins

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is not a monolith we represent varied

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ideas backgrounds disciplines and

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experiences and we seek to exchange and

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we seek to engage in good faith dialogue

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with other curious minds tonight we are

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joined by Jay shank a man who survives

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getting two art degrees designer

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advertising professional and student of

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the strange oh man I love that I have to

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remember that Jay is interested in

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applied psychology through ART SCI

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phenomena electronics and of course art

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you can be found roaming at large in the

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greater northeast Ohio area

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super excited to bring Jam to the show

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this evening I actually first connected

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with him uh through Nick over his sick

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memes

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um but this dude has incredible wealth

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of knowledge on the Paranormal and all

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of us were super excited about this

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subject's proposal of Art and paranormal

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so without any further delay I'm going

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to welcome onto the stream my beloved

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co-hosts Campbell Nick oh hey

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gentlemen how are you Happy Valentine's

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Day Happy Valentine's Day yes thank you

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um and let me get Jay in here too to

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on the air it was it was straightforward

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possible platform to use but it seems

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like something is always going sideways

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thank you very much thanks everyone for

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having me um I'm really glad to be here

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and uh I hope no one regrets it I'm uh I

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was just thinking though as you read the

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roaming across uh Roman at large across

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Northeast in Ohio avoiding the toxic

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cloud though to the best of my ability

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but we'll talk about that we can talk

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about that later

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we have several interests again right

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now we've got those balloons getting

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shot down we got toxic clouds since

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that's uh local to you uh what's your

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take on that whole thing going on in

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Ohio because I haven't really read much

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about it it is bad but it is not as bad

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as Twitter makes it seem

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um people on on 12 people on Twitter

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talking about it being you know it's

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like one of the it's a Chernobyl level

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thing it's the greatest environmental

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disaster it's going to ruin everything

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people are spreading rumors

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um you know that there's mass die-offs

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of animals within 100 mile radius and

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I'm like kind of like well I'm at 50 and

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I yeah still still kicking I mean

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it's not good and

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um I'm worried about the future because

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they're really like kind of like we're

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not going to do anything to stop this

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from happening again and

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um like the extra fun part of this so

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um there's an East West uh also like in

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east west Norfolk Southern route where

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they haul this stuff and there was a

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line that runs from if you look at a map

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of Ohio

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um or Canton Ohio is which is

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south of Cleveland if you go straight

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down and then out this way to the West

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um it runs through some smaller towns

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where they're going to close that line

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and route that stuff through Greater

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Cleveland so the next time there's a

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derailment with vinyl chloride and

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they're doing the control burn you know

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it'll be in uh you know somebody's

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neighborhood in a major city instead of

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a village

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do you think the railroad companies will

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pay them off a little more than five

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bucks a person I think they're up to

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they're up to a million today for the

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whole town but I don't know how they're

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I feel like

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um it's going to be it's a million

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dollars but you can't get it

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uh one of those kind of deals you can

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definitely get your five dollars

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um right yeah well it's still cheaper

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than giving them paid time off or

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something right it's uh well that's the

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other aspect of this is

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um I saw uh somebody from the carbon's

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Union speak and the Carmen are the

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people that expect inspect the cars yeah

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uh oddly enough and the carbon have been

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um cut down they used to do a three

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minute inspection per car they cut those

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down to 90. that's yeah like a huge

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issue with that so this guy just based

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on some security cam footage it's like

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that looks like a bearing failed and you

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know I that's

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a common fail point they fail

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um who knows uh maybe that would have

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gotten fixed if they would have had more

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Carmen and they would have been allowed

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to do their three-minute inspection Etc

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but we'll uh so I'm uh I don't think

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this is this is not the apocalypse it's

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not um over for Ohio because of this

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it's over for Ohio for a whole other

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series of reasons that it won't uh way

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outside the scope of the show

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eventually we will all be consumed by

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Nega Ohio our shadows nice yeah the

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shadow realm that's attachments but

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Bible again we'll talk about that some

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other time so uh not good but not

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apocalyptic

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um oh go ahead I was just gonna say

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what's what's interesting is there's

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been a small handful of these

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derailments in the last week there's

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this one in Ohio there's one outside uh

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Houston one in South Carolina there's

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some kind of additional chemical spill

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outside Tucson I don't think it was

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involving a train

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um and we have this also coming on the

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coattails of a long and arduous labor

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battle on behalf of the railroad workers

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who were requesting higher pay paid

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benefits paid sick time basically all of

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the things that any other civilized

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country in the world offers their

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employees especially the employees that

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for instance are transporting toxic

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chemicals across state lines and doing

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safety checks we'd hope that we would

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want them to be happy healthy in a good

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um like Campbell mentioned he hadn't

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really read much on this why do you

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think uh it's not getting the coverage

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that in my opinion it should

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um I don't think it's getting the

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coverage it should because we just had

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that prolonged

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um battle and everybody I mean it's a

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you know it's illegal for railroad

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workers to strike if ordered back on the

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line there's some law that was passed in

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the 30s or 40s about that

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we're like everybody and also like

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everybody got together that was

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unanimous across party lines everybody's

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like screw him get him back I think they

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got a day off maybe right no days you

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have a day off now and I just I don't

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think anybody

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um this is one of those things where

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there's no political Capital to be made

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on it on anybody's part on it so nobody

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is

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um going to uh try to bring it out in

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the deuce plus we really have

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um the really convenience like fun story

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of the balloon shoot down and then

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it's like it's disclosure yet again

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culture more broadly uh interests in

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environmentalism

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um in paranormal culture in general as

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well do you have a interest in the

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environment uh and uh is it linked in

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your mind in any way to your interest in

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the Paranormal

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I do have an interest in in the

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environment but

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um it's not really linked to in an

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environmental like cause I mean I'm

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interested in the environment because

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um

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you know as far as I can tell I'm

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existing in it yeah

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like all my stuff is there we may not

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all be materialists on this show but I

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understand wanting to maintain a clean

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and safe immediate environment right

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um and I

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I think a lot of it

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um

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it doesn't it doesn't tie in too much

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directly but I do

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um because we do also have a very long

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Legacy of environmental degradation in

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Ohio uh I grew up I mean this will I

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never got powers this did not activate

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my X Gene I grew up uh like five miles

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away from a toxic waste stomp

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um

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uh well were they it was a 17 000

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barrels of I don't know what

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um we're just in this five acre field

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and closed just decaying and leaking and

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eventually that became an EPA super fun

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site and they had to

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um build an incinerator there and

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vaporize all of it should be uh get any

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superpowers from that no that's I'm like

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tremendous didn't even get high from

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inhaling my eyes no and um it did not

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activate my X Gene

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um I would have even taken one like okay

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like maybe I get uh a little disfigured

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like Meg crawler or beast or something

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whatever it's so cool it's super cool

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yeah so I do I do care but

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um

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I don't here's what I will say about as

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a kind of a overarching statement about

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the Paranormal I don't know what to

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think about it but I'm fascinated by it

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I kind of agree

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um

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can't pull myself away from it and

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although I did and this is this is

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leading into

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um

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my entire topic about art in the

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Paranormal I did kind of have a

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paranormal Dark Night of the Soul

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over the summer yes

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um

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I went to uh Point Pleasant you know a

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notable spot

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um touch the statues rear end I was

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hoping yeah and I was hoping like I'm

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gonna touch the touch the statues here

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and um people might not know Point

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Pleasant this is a UFO show it's not a

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Cryptid show this is true uh well those

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are linked though

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they are I know

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UFOs they're like that John keel's The

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Mothman Prophecies uh written in the

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late 60s uh UFO flap in West Virginia

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also the sightings of this anomalous

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humanoid dubbed them off man even though

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he sounds from the people's description

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where like an owl man or a kind of a

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giant bug man but it's stuck and uh

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really I think

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somehow in the last I don't know if it's

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through the exposure through the Hellyer

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documentary or something there's been

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some kind of memetic and a part of it at

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you like this memetic explosion of

279
00:13:23,629 --> 00:13:21,360
popularity of the Mothman yeah you know

280
00:13:25,569 --> 00:13:23,639
really his rocketed rocketed up the

281
00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:25,579
charts compared to like other

282
00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:28,860
non-anomalous uh humanoid sightings

283
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:31,139
they've commercialized it really well

284
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:34,320
yeah so I I'm sitting in Pittsburgh

285
00:13:38,509 --> 00:13:36,540
right now by the way an amazing studio

286
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:38,519
that's basically an entire Superfund

287
00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:40,320
Site Metropolis

288
00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:42,540
um but yeah Point Pleasant has done a

289
00:13:47,329 --> 00:13:44,760
great job also commercializing this

290
00:13:49,009 --> 00:13:47,339
entire subject with the Mothman Festival

291
00:13:51,710 --> 00:13:49,019
um which if anyone hasn't been totally

292
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,720
worth attending um a few years ago they

293
00:13:56,449 --> 00:13:54,240
have a 5k they have speakers you can go

294
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,459
on tours it's it's kind of like a weird

295
00:14:00,650 --> 00:13:58,320
mix between like a comic book convention

296
00:14:01,610 --> 00:14:00,660
and like a tattoo convention and just

297
00:14:03,310 --> 00:14:01,620
you know

298
00:14:05,690 --> 00:14:03,320
foreign

299
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:05,700
they had a regional they had a regional

300
00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:08,160
artist just called this steel statue of

301
00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:10,260
the Mothman who's kind of squatting

302
00:14:15,769 --> 00:14:12,120
forward menacingly you walk around

303
00:14:17,470 --> 00:14:15,779
behind his buttocks he's Sublime

304
00:14:20,269 --> 00:14:17,480
um

305
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:20,279
it's become a thing so I was hoping you

306
00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:22,620
know I'm gonna go to Point Pleasant go

307
00:14:29,150 --> 00:14:24,540
to the Mothman Museum buy some swag

308
00:14:30,889 --> 00:14:29,160
touch the Mothman statues rear end uh I

309
00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:30,899
was really hoping that like at that

310
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:33,320
moment the Bayless laser would strike me

311
00:14:40,370 --> 00:14:37,100
but I didn't get didn't get that either

312
00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:40,380
and uh one of the things I I bought when

313
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:42,060
I was down there was like I I picked up

314
00:14:47,629 --> 00:14:44,220
John Keels the eighth Tower which he

315
00:14:50,449 --> 00:14:47,639
wrote some years after uh

316
00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:50,459
yeah Mothman Prophecies and it's I would

317
00:14:54,769 --> 00:14:52,860
say it's kind of the sequel to that and

318
00:14:57,470 --> 00:14:54,779
where Keel starts out

319
00:15:00,829 --> 00:14:57,480
um talking about his ideas about

320
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,839
um the super spectrum and kind of adding

321
00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:02,399
um SCI phenomena onto the

322
00:15:05,870 --> 00:15:04,440
electromagnetic spectrum at some point I

323
00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:05,880
think he believed that was really going

324
00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:09,180
to happen in the future eventually as

325
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,860
he's talking about kind of all the

326
00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:12,480
anomalous phenomenon that he was

327
00:15:17,930 --> 00:15:15,480
subjected to he gets into kind of a dark

328
00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:17,940
dark place or he's just like this is all

329
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:19,740
Madness

330
00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:22,800
um the universe is insane if you find

331
00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:25,440
yourself subjected to these phenomena

332
00:15:30,110 --> 00:15:27,899
there's no meaning to be found it is

333
00:15:32,810 --> 00:15:30,120
insane and

334
00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:32,820
he gets a little like I think he gets a

335
00:15:36,050 --> 00:15:33,480
little

336
00:15:38,030 --> 00:15:36,060
um humanity is the virus and I'm like

337
00:15:40,129 --> 00:15:38,040
come on John heal you wimp you didn't

338
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,139
even have this horse you weren't even on

339
00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:42,800
Twitter like yeah

340
00:15:47,650 --> 00:15:45,660
you can't throw in the towel like this

341
00:15:50,810 --> 00:15:47,660
but he does and he's like there's

342
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,820
psychic pollution all of our all these

343
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:52,800
people thinking all these banal thoughts

344
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:55,920
and I and I am got and I kind of

345
00:16:00,110 --> 00:15:58,860
realized at least to me superficially

346
00:16:03,949 --> 00:16:00,120
he's right

347
00:16:06,769 --> 00:16:03,959
okay at least I thought so because I I

348
00:16:08,210 --> 00:16:06,779
feel like a year before this we did our

349
00:16:12,590 --> 00:16:08,220
our first

350
00:16:14,689 --> 00:16:12,600
is another thing I'm involved with

351
00:16:15,889 --> 00:16:14,699
online paranormal conference I ended up

352
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:15,899
doing

353
00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:18,180
um a tech in the Paranormal uh panel

354
00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:21,660
really quick and my entire my entire

355
00:16:26,269 --> 00:16:24,420
Focus was kind of taking out like Ye Old

356
00:16:29,629 --> 00:16:26,279
EMF meter

357
00:16:32,329 --> 00:16:29,639
and going what are we doing here and

358
00:16:34,370 --> 00:16:32,339
this actually turned into a t-shirt out

359
00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:34,380
of the conference because I said I were

360
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:36,180
I'm going in the house

361
00:16:41,329 --> 00:16:39,360
haunted location I'm attempting to

362
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,339
verbally interact with an entity or just

363
00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:44,160
move through space in this house I'm

364
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:48,660
waiting for this to pop off

365
00:16:53,210 --> 00:16:51,839
uh now I'm getting like radio on a

366
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:53,220
certain mean what is the ghost doing

367
00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:55,740
maybe they're farting on me maybe

368
00:17:01,490 --> 00:16:58,680
there's em emissions are like them it's

369
00:17:04,909 --> 00:17:01,500
like a prank and that's what the the uh

370
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:04,919
that energy is on their plane or

371
00:17:10,490 --> 00:17:07,919
whatever but I I kind of realize that

372
00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:10,500
that's sort of like a um

373
00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:12,540
and this is I feel like now and this is

374
00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:14,100
where I'm gonna get in trouble on this I

375
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,419
feel like I'm talking smack about

376
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:17,520
everyone and I'm not I value these

377
00:17:22,370 --> 00:17:19,919
experiences I think people going on

378
00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:22,380
having these experiences is extremely

379
00:17:27,530 --> 00:17:25,020
valuable but mostly for the individuals

380
00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:27,540
having them I think you're kind of

381
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:30,900
participating in like a photoring act

382
00:17:36,529 --> 00:17:33,720
some kind of ritual the devices your

383
00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:36,539
Talisman you go out you have this

384
00:17:43,970 --> 00:17:39,900
experience you come back and people are

385
00:17:45,289 --> 00:17:43,980
existing in these models that are either

386
00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:45,299
um

387
00:17:49,310 --> 00:17:47,460
I know with this I I either need to

388
00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:49,320
gather enough empirical evidence and

389
00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:52,140
this will prove it it was a slam dunk uh

390
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:55,260
we can say go surreal they're added to

391
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,260
kind of the rational realistic model of

392
00:18:02,570 --> 00:18:00,240
the universe that we we think we live in

393
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:02,580
and I will get free breakfast at Denny's

394
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,280
for the rest of my life or

395
00:18:10,010 --> 00:18:07,919
I need to collect more data then that'll

396
00:18:12,049 --> 00:18:10,020
happen like there's a set amount of

397
00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:12,059
times where I'm going to go out and be

398
00:18:17,210 --> 00:18:13,980
like you know I did the thing I was like

399
00:18:21,529 --> 00:18:17,220
Hey ghosts and the thing had you know

400
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:23,690
I was reading another another

401
00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:26,160
um Fella's book who was just talking and

402
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:27,660
he kind of Hit the same point where he's

403
00:18:31,549 --> 00:18:29,280
like yeah you can go out people see

404
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:31,559
things they see these really irrational

405
00:18:36,409 --> 00:18:34,260
strange things and then what is it what

406
00:18:38,330 --> 00:18:36,419
does it all mean and then we really

407
00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:38,340
don't know how to interface with these

408
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,820
phenomena and I really felt very like

409
00:18:45,529 --> 00:18:43,679
very bad kind of sad because it's like

410
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,539
well there's some fun stories there's

411
00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:47,520
really what are we getting out of this

412
00:18:52,370 --> 00:18:49,740
like what is it

413
00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:52,380
there's this almost like lovecraftian

414
00:18:58,430 --> 00:18:53,700
horror

415
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:01,010
it like to me that speaks to this absurd

416
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:03,840
kind of nihilism that genuinely would be

417
00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:06,240
way more upsetting to people

418
00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:08,340
um than ascribing some kind of meaning

419
00:19:13,549 --> 00:19:10,980
or purpose to these experiences

420
00:19:16,909 --> 00:19:13,559
I think we can do both so I think it can

421
00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:16,919
be Madness without nihilism

422
00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:19,080
at least this is this is where I'm going

423
00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:22,200
on this so then I was I was driving to

424
00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:23,160
work

425
00:19:28,970 --> 00:19:26,580
um listening to uh what's up weirdo

426
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:28,980
podcast and this was uh I didn't know

427
00:19:31,850 --> 00:19:30,179
this John Tenney's on there and he's

428
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:31,860
talking he's like you know Pera just

429
00:19:37,130 --> 00:19:35,280
means next to para is the the the next

430
00:19:38,990 --> 00:19:37,140
two so when you see somebody like a

431
00:19:41,450 --> 00:19:39,000
Ghost Hunter and they're like if I was

432
00:19:43,370 --> 00:19:41,460
like I'm para J I'm just he's like next

433
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,380
to Jay it's like okay oh it's like Leon

434
00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:46,160
Leo Prime yes yes

435
00:19:51,710 --> 00:19:50,340
but I realize psychologically that a lot

436
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:51,720
of people because

437
00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:54,240
um I worked in the Arts I I work in

438
00:19:59,090 --> 00:19:56,100
advertising I've worked in the Arts a

439
00:20:01,370 --> 00:19:59,100
thousand years ago I worked as a art

440
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,380
museum security guard

441
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:03,360
um all modern contemporary which is

442
00:20:08,570 --> 00:20:06,480
honestly one of the greatest I mean not

443
00:20:10,669 --> 00:20:08,580
the most fun jobs you're standing but

444
00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:10,679
it's one of the greatest insights into

445
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:13,620
the like how perception works with

446
00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:16,559
people and what are the what are the

447
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:19,799
main is a perception with them so what I

448
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:22,260
realized is people viewing and this is a

449
00:20:25,250 --> 00:20:23,700
this is we're focused on modern

450
00:20:26,750 --> 00:20:25,260
contemporary here and we're going to end

451
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:26,760
up and end up drilling down to a few

452
00:20:31,010 --> 00:20:28,080
schools with this

453
00:20:33,710 --> 00:20:31,020
looking at art is analogous to having

454
00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:33,720
that paranormal experience looking at

455
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,160
the painting is analogous to having

456
00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:37,679
having the Mothman

457
00:20:43,610 --> 00:20:41,160
um because essentially you know what

458
00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:43,620
makes this paranormal is it is not

459
00:20:48,049 --> 00:20:45,720
something we're used to seeing like if

460
00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:48,059
there was a Mothman in my backyard every

461
00:20:52,970 --> 00:20:50,160
day when I go to feed the birds you'd

462
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,980
just be like out of here like this is

463
00:20:59,210 --> 00:20:54,960
not like a peanuts are for the crows not

464
00:21:02,570 --> 00:20:59,220
for you man go but we don't and when we

465
00:21:03,289 --> 00:21:02,580
we we operate

466
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:03,299
um

467
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:07,260
in the world we all see it uh the same

468
00:21:10,669 --> 00:21:08,880
enough that we can function in it

469
00:21:14,029 --> 00:21:10,679
together

470
00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:14,039
um but that sort of gives us like we we

471
00:21:19,730 --> 00:21:17,640
end up with like a shared library of

472
00:21:22,730 --> 00:21:19,740
symbols a shared library of meetings a

473
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:22,740
shared library of objects and when we

474
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:25,140
confront something that's way outside of

475
00:21:30,350 --> 00:21:26,340
that

476
00:21:32,270 --> 00:21:30,360
we have uh oh

477
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:32,280
at least the way we're raised and

478
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:34,740
trained and educated in this country the

479
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,200
initial urge is to immediately try to

480
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:39,600
force that experience what we're seeing

481
00:21:45,950 --> 00:21:43,280
into a one of those existing Frameworks

482
00:21:48,049 --> 00:21:45,960
when you're in when you're standing

483
00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:48,059
around in the art museum hanging out

484
00:21:51,470 --> 00:21:49,500
with people they'll come in they'll look

485
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:51,480
at the painting and they'll go it's a

486
00:21:57,710 --> 00:21:54,600
painting that is non it does not depict

487
00:22:00,289 --> 00:21:57,720
any uh thing that is uh recognizable in

488
00:22:01,730 --> 00:22:00,299
the real world or to pick things in an

489
00:22:04,370 --> 00:22:01,740
order that is recognizable in the real

490
00:22:07,370 --> 00:22:04,380
and they'll say they don't get it

491
00:22:11,149 --> 00:22:07,380
and and it's that same kind of we're

492
00:22:13,789 --> 00:22:11,159
confronting that we're confronting

493
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:13,799
um the unknown we're trying to force it

494
00:22:20,510 --> 00:22:16,320
into a framework we're not having a lot

495
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,520
of fun doing it like but

496
00:22:24,590 --> 00:22:22,799
I ended up

497
00:22:26,690 --> 00:22:24,600
um thinking about this because here's a

498
00:22:27,649 --> 00:22:26,700
this is a if we have time I'll try to go

499
00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:27,659
back to this one of the things that's

500
00:22:32,930 --> 00:22:30,900
really funny about our training is um

501
00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:32,940
there's not a lot of theory Believe It

502
00:22:37,490 --> 00:22:35,400
or Not theories mostly the province of

503
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:37,500
people that pursue our history we're

504
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,200
actually going in to do this stuff doing

505
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:45,720
it is more

506
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,480
um it's a different process it's more of

507
00:22:53,149 --> 00:22:51,360
an apprenticeship process it's more of

508
00:22:59,390 --> 00:22:53,159
of

509
00:23:00,890 --> 00:22:59,400
instincts as you as you work in the in

510
00:23:01,970 --> 00:23:00,900
whatever the thing you're working in and

511
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:01,980
you really

512
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:04,260
um and you kind of end up doing this

513
00:23:10,909 --> 00:23:08,400
until uh you get like a guy that works

514
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,919
now and it's very

515
00:23:16,370 --> 00:23:12,720
um it's like a very Hands-On process but

516
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:16,380
if you're like we're discussing the whys

517
00:23:19,549 --> 00:23:18,000
it's like I don't I never knew the whys

518
00:23:22,909 --> 00:23:19,559
I didn't know the whys until I started

519
00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:22,919
looking um my own for some of this stuff

520
00:23:28,130 --> 00:23:25,380
and I ended up

521
00:23:29,690 --> 00:23:28,140
um actually going studying the roots of

522
00:23:32,090 --> 00:23:29,700
the surrealists because I feel like the

523
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:32,100
surrealists are the most applicable to

524
00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:36,000
the Paranormal and the surrealists were

525
00:23:45,409 --> 00:23:41,280
actually uh quite heavily influenced by

526
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:45,419
the occult in their day as well as

527
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:46,080
um

528
00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:50,159
you know psychology as it was coming

529
00:23:53,930 --> 00:23:52,740
um a little bit of Freudian a lot more

530
00:23:57,169 --> 00:23:53,940
Young

531
00:23:59,390 --> 00:23:57,179
but the the surrealists were really

532
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:59,400
looking at their goal like the ultimate

533
00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:01,380
stated goal was Fearless Manifesto was

534
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:05,640
to merge the reality with dreams with

535
00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:07,679
the reality of perception into a super

536
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,600
reality and they were big on this idea

537
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,400
of

538
00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:16,799
these things we perceive in dreams the

539
00:24:22,909 --> 00:24:18,840
logic of Dreams

540
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:22,919
um keys in metaphors the things that we

541
00:24:27,169 --> 00:24:25,320
can eventually discover and do this

542
00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:27,179
integration

543
00:24:32,270 --> 00:24:29,220
um with conscious thought

544
00:24:36,130 --> 00:24:32,280
and they were they were big the original

545
00:24:39,649 --> 00:24:36,140
guys were big on hegelian dialectic guys

546
00:24:41,149 --> 00:24:39,659
and then they were a lot of them were

547
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:41,159
um

548
00:24:45,890 --> 00:24:44,159
they were dialectical materialists but

549
00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:45,900
it's weird I'm like how does that work

550
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:47,700
when I was reading about this but then

551
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:50,159
I'm like but they had a very they had an

552
00:24:54,350 --> 00:24:52,080
occult view of reality they had a called

553
00:24:56,029 --> 00:24:54,360
view of the material world so it was

554
00:24:58,430 --> 00:24:56,039
kind of like

555
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,440
you guys are cheating but I get it like

556
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:00,320
it works

557
00:25:06,169 --> 00:25:04,080
but it's the same and I I'm and this is

558
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,179
where I'm at on this this is a new idea

559
00:25:12,529 --> 00:25:08,720
and I am not I don't have a conclusion

560
00:25:16,010 --> 00:25:12,539
but I feel like this is a tool and this

561
00:25:18,830 --> 00:25:16,020
is something that I hope

562
00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:18,840
kind of starting down this road is

563
00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:20,280
somewhere that can lead to something

564
00:25:25,789 --> 00:25:23,100
somewhere fruitful discussing this stuff

565
00:25:28,130 --> 00:25:25,799
or or getting something a little better

566
00:25:28,909 --> 00:25:28,140
out of it really

567
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,919
um

568
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:30,720
though

569
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:33,840
I I think what's what's funny is a lot

570
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:36,960
of um our current kind of jargon for

571
00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:38,400
this stuff is what separates our

572
00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:41,880
thinking in it okay oh yeah and I really

573
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:45,720
consider so These Guys these guys were a

574
00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:47,520
lot of them were practicing the cultists

575
00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:49,500
and a lot of them had an occult

576
00:25:53,810 --> 00:25:52,020
framework like framework mystical

577
00:25:56,810 --> 00:25:53,820
framework of the world

578
00:25:59,330 --> 00:25:56,820
um I consider you know as a language

579
00:26:01,010 --> 00:25:59,340
transition we kind of moved from that to

580
00:26:02,570 --> 00:26:01,020
this framework of using the word

581
00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:02,580
Supernatural

582
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:07,620
um I feel like now there's like a

583
00:26:12,649 --> 00:26:10,080
connotation of if I say Supernatural I

584
00:26:15,529 --> 00:26:12,659
have to be like you know the Miss swirl

585
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:15,539
and it's it's very uh and then you know

586
00:26:21,169 --> 00:26:18,000
that we're now in the 90s we're in

587
00:26:23,330 --> 00:26:21,179
paranormal which is really a

588
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:23,340
um rational like kind of like a rational

589
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:25,679
categorization of this stuff but if we

590
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,559
if we switch words we can say if we're

591
00:26:33,049 --> 00:26:30,320
saying we're gonna look at this uh

592
00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:33,059
supernatural phenomena that lets us look

593
00:26:39,950 --> 00:26:34,440
at it

594
00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:39,960
um

595
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:42,480
as something that isn't meant to be like

596
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:44,279
forced in

597
00:26:51,649 --> 00:26:47,520
one framework can make sense but we can

598
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:51,659
use you know we can synthesize uh a new

599
00:26:57,850 --> 00:26:54,320
perceptional reality

600
00:27:01,370 --> 00:26:57,860
looking consciously

601
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:01,380
dude this first of all this rules I'm

602
00:27:04,669 --> 00:27:03,360
like dying in the background listening

603
00:27:06,529 --> 00:27:04,679
to this like anyone who's gonna bring up

604
00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:06,539
Hagel in this conversation like oh

605
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,340
incredible

606
00:27:12,169 --> 00:27:10,799
um so I've been uh I'm gonna tip my hand

607
00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:12,179
here and say so I've been working

608
00:27:15,409 --> 00:27:14,100
through the archives of subliminal Jihad

609
00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:15,419
and I don't know if any of you guys

610
00:27:19,610 --> 00:27:17,340
listen to that podcast

611
00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:19,620
um I'm not sure exactly recommend it but

612
00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:23,400
it is it's basically q but for the left

613
00:27:26,269 --> 00:27:25,140
where in the sense that like you're

614
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:26,279
talking about

615
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:28,200
the right stuff but for the wrong

616
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,440
reasons and the first few like the first

617
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,120
few episodes are about Michael Aquino

618
00:27:36,409 --> 00:27:34,799
who is the head of the Temple of set and

619
00:27:39,529 --> 00:27:36,419
left the Church of Satan and then was

620
00:27:42,409 --> 00:27:39,539
like also the head of like psychops or

621
00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:42,419
psyops um at the Army and talking about

622
00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:44,220
the influence that may have had on

623
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,440
different cultural and Military uh

624
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,960
events uh in the latter half of the 20th

625
00:27:53,149 --> 00:27:51,120
century but um

626
00:27:55,250 --> 00:27:53,159
the the next book of episodes like

627
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,260
episodes six through nine they talk tons

628
00:27:59,810 --> 00:27:57,120
about the role of the occult and popular

629
00:28:02,210 --> 00:27:59,820
culture and the role of the occult in

630
00:28:04,909 --> 00:28:02,220
early Hollywood and Cinema

631
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,919
um and I I kind of

632
00:28:09,169 --> 00:28:07,440
up to it including um not just early

633
00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:09,179
Cinema but where it shows up today and

634
00:28:13,070 --> 00:28:10,620
one of the movies they talked about a

635
00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:13,080
lot was Doctor Strange and how there is

636
00:28:15,470 --> 00:28:14,400
this kind of

637
00:28:18,350 --> 00:28:15,480
um

638
00:28:21,230 --> 00:28:18,360
application and arrival of occult images

639
00:28:22,909 --> 00:28:21,240
and symbolism and practices into popular

640
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:22,919
media

641
00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:25,919
um and what if any kind of meaning we

642
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:28,200
can or should derive from that

643
00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:30,900
um and I just bring this up because I I

644
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:32,820
do think

645
00:28:36,289 --> 00:28:34,799
to me it feels like there's like the

646
00:28:38,269 --> 00:28:36,299
occult is so well recognized and

647
00:28:39,890 --> 00:28:38,279
understood at this point uh just

648
00:28:42,409 --> 00:28:39,900
popularly it doesn't seem kind of

649
00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:42,419
clandestine or esoteric to included in

650
00:28:45,470 --> 00:28:44,039
popular media but it still seems to

651
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:45,480
touch that kind of

652
00:28:51,049 --> 00:28:49,200
strange uncanny place that adds like a

653
00:28:57,649 --> 00:28:51,059
sparkle of mystery to whatever the story

654
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,630
oh I have someone else who's into

655
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:01,440
subliminal Jihad

656
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:05,039
excellent I don't I don't listen to that

657
00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:07,320
but it's an interesting

658
00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:08,340
um

659
00:29:12,169 --> 00:29:10,260
I think you know when I said like I

660
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:12,179
don't I don't know

661
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:13,919
um what to say about the Paranormal but

662
00:29:18,169 --> 00:29:15,480
I can't stop looking at it or the

663
00:29:20,090 --> 00:29:18,179
supernatural I think that mystery the

664
00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:20,100
mystery is kind of centrally compelling

665
00:29:27,769 --> 00:29:22,860
to it and

666
00:29:30,169 --> 00:29:27,779
um I had a quote from greet uh that even

667
00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:30,179
if none of this works I gotta find let

668
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:31,559
me pull this up real quick because

669
00:29:36,289 --> 00:29:34,320
mcgree had something really good to say

670
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:36,299
because I was like well what if you end

671
00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:38,580
up at the bottom with this again but you

672
00:29:42,889 --> 00:29:40,260
know Magritte

673
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,899
described his paintings saying the evoke

674
00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:45,120
mystery and indeed when one sees my

675
00:29:49,730 --> 00:29:47,100
pictures one asks a simple question what

676
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:49,740
does it mean it doesn't mean anything

677
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:51,960
because mystery means nothing either

678
00:29:55,370 --> 00:29:53,760
it's unknowable

679
00:29:59,049 --> 00:29:55,380
and

680
00:30:02,810 --> 00:29:59,059
I think there's anxiety I like it

681
00:30:04,730 --> 00:30:02,820
I uh I I look at that as that's like the

682
00:30:07,010 --> 00:30:04,740
final fallback position

683
00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:07,020
if after

684
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:07,860
um

685
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,340
after Decades of study and attempting to

686
00:30:13,850 --> 00:30:13,200
synthesize

687
00:30:17,330 --> 00:30:13,860
um

688
00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:17,340
dreams art and paranormal phenomena into

689
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:19,860
con you know into a conscious super

690
00:30:24,350 --> 00:30:23,039
reality fails you got that you got you

691
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,360
just pull that one out of your pocket

692
00:30:28,370 --> 00:30:26,399
you're like mystery

693
00:30:30,169 --> 00:30:28,380
well Jay you got me thinking about a lot

694
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,179
of stuff with what you said uh well

695
00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:31,679
especially like it's funny you brought

696
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,700
up a quote about my Greek because

697
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:35,039
immediately when you're talking about uh

698
00:30:39,230 --> 00:30:37,320
the art and the UFO stuff I was thinking

699
00:30:41,389 --> 00:30:39,240
of his famous painting uh that's just of

700
00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:41,399
a pipe and then it says to see Nepal in

701
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,020
puke which is like this is not a pipe

702
00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:44,880
and it's like well it's a painting of a

703
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,500
pipe does that mean that it is a pipe or

704
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:48,240
not and it get into the words and the

705
00:30:51,889 --> 00:30:49,860
language and it matters so much and this

706
00:30:54,169 --> 00:30:51,899
is something I've talked to fellow

707
00:30:56,510 --> 00:30:54,179
Skeptics about a fair bit it's like is

708
00:30:58,370 --> 00:30:56,520
it a UFO or not like it doesn't matter

709
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:58,380
what is the language like how does that

710
00:31:02,210 --> 00:31:00,720
play into it and then there's this whole

711
00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:02,220
side of it that you're getting at with

712
00:31:06,889 --> 00:31:04,860
the art and the surrealism especially

713
00:31:08,690 --> 00:31:06,899
with dream states right like Salvador

714
00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:08,700
Dali was getting into dreams and things

715
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,140
like that and at the time dreams were

716
00:31:13,490 --> 00:31:12,480
very mysterious still in the 20s and 30s

717
00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:13,500
and things like that and they were just

718
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:16,140
getting into studying them in detail and

719
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:17,760
do you think that there's any kind of

720
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,260
parallel there where like dreams are

721
00:31:23,389 --> 00:31:21,120
still meaningful but like even people

722
00:31:25,130 --> 00:31:23,399
who like think that UFOs are like a

723
00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:25,140
non-human intelligence or Supernatural

724
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:27,720
like you know interdimensional know like

725
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:29,039
like they don't that generally like

726
00:31:33,049 --> 00:31:31,440
attribute super amounts of significance

727
00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:33,059
to dreams uh but they're still

728
00:31:35,930 --> 00:31:34,260
meaningful to people and they still

729
00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:35,940
influence our lives is there something

730
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,039
uh along those lines that you're sort of

731
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:40,200
getting at that we uh apply the meaning

732
00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:41,760
and it can still be very meaningful with

733
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:45,120
it intrinsically literally being what it

734
00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:49,679
is I I think when we look at

735
00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:53,460
dreams a lot of logic of Dreams ends up

736
00:31:58,850 --> 00:31:55,380
um having that significance on a

737
00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:58,860
personal level although what I what I

738
00:32:04,029 --> 00:32:01,559
find fascinating about it is the logic

739
00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:04,039
who dreams ends up

740
00:32:12,889 --> 00:32:08,700
dovetailing with the logic of how

741
00:32:15,889 --> 00:32:12,899
entities or objects behave in these in a

742
00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:15,899
lot of reports I think one of the things

743
00:32:21,250 --> 00:32:19,020
that um one of the things I feel like

744
00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:21,260
we're

745
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,200
20 years ago okay so 20 years ago

746
00:32:34,190 --> 00:32:30,720
um little me like watching The X-Files

747
00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:34,200
and being really into this stuff then

748
00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:37,140
um really like the the consensus of that

749
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:39,779
was sort of you know the EB hypothesis

750
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,720
is real for whatever reason uh we just

751
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:44,640
kind of like everybody just kind of

752
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:46,380
though I I one of the things I find

753
00:32:50,810 --> 00:32:49,620
interesting about us is a lot of stuff

754
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,820
um that's brought up to support that

755
00:32:54,649 --> 00:32:52,559
we've sort of been cognitively blind to

756
00:32:58,190 --> 00:32:54,659
like everybody will bring up like the

757
00:32:59,930 --> 00:32:58,200
space brother era uh encounters but I'm

758
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,940
like did you does anybody do you have

759
00:33:03,710 --> 00:33:01,919
space Brothers anymore like does anybody

760
00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:03,720
have does anybody like had a space

761
00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:07,860
brother thing like you know like last

762
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:10,260
month anybody been told abandoned your

763
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:14,820
nuclear nuclear arms Etc and I think

764
00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:17,760
um I've seen this in

765
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,140
um

766
00:33:23,690 --> 00:33:21,600
I feel like the the Momo the Missouri

767
00:33:25,610 --> 00:33:23,700
monster sighting is kind of a

768
00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:25,620
quintessential one of these and then I

769
00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:26,700
know

770
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,080
um Joshua kuchin documented a bunch of

771
00:33:36,529 --> 00:33:33,840
Bigfoot sightings that have a lot of

772
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:36,539
extra high strangeness including UFO

773
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,460
encounters including fans and lights

774
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:40,320
including

775
00:33:46,009 --> 00:33:43,440
um a lot of classic Poltergeist activity

776
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:46,019
um and

777
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:47,700
um I can't remember this guy's name

778
00:33:51,889 --> 00:33:49,440
because really I do have a bad memory

779
00:33:54,350 --> 00:33:51,899
the guy the Sierra sounds got you know

780
00:33:56,830 --> 00:33:54,360
the guy is a famous okay in Bigfoot yeah

781
00:33:58,930 --> 00:33:56,840
in the world of Bigfoot

782
00:34:03,830 --> 00:33:58,940
buddies

783
00:34:05,450 --> 00:34:03,840
they're out they recorded Bigfoot

784
00:34:06,590 --> 00:34:05,460
tolerant at each other they're hooting

785
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:06,600
their hollering they're having a good

786
00:34:11,869 --> 00:34:09,359
time or not we don't know

787
00:34:13,369 --> 00:34:11,879
um but they found like they they had

788
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:13,379
this you could get this you can still

789
00:34:17,629 --> 00:34:15,359
buy this from Ron moorhead's website you

790
00:34:19,450 --> 00:34:17,639
know it used to be on record it's a CD

791
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:19,460
now maybe you can get it as a download

792
00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:22,800
Ron what has been messing with Bigfoot

793
00:34:26,990 --> 00:34:24,540
this whole time he wrote a book called

794
00:34:30,589 --> 00:34:27,000
The quantum Bigfoot where he's like

795
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:30,599
there's also all this High strangeness I

796
00:34:35,450 --> 00:34:32,879
found all of these really weird things

797
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:35,460
that happened to me I think it's some

798
00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:39,359
kind of if it's an animal it can come it

799
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,740
comes from another dimension or

800
00:34:45,649 --> 00:34:43,200
something he's got a lot of I mean I

801
00:34:48,409 --> 00:34:45,659
feel like um and this is I get this

802
00:34:50,570 --> 00:34:48,419
because it's very easy to do and I don't

803
00:34:53,770 --> 00:34:50,580
understand it well enough to say no but

804
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:53,780
it's easy to kind of go like Quantum and

805
00:34:57,710 --> 00:34:56,700
you know for a lot of people but it's

806
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:57,720
really

807
00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:00,720
um the larger point is there's a lot a

808
00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:02,760
lot of these things are really really

809
00:35:08,450 --> 00:35:06,900
really weirder than like there's been um

810
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:08,460
people publishing papers people

811
00:35:11,390 --> 00:35:09,839
publishing

812
00:35:14,690 --> 00:35:11,400
um books people

813
00:35:16,430 --> 00:35:14,700
in these fields have emitted a lot of

814
00:35:17,690 --> 00:35:16,440
like really crazy stuff

815
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:17,700
yeah

816
00:35:19,730 --> 00:35:19,200
um you know I remember

817
00:35:23,210 --> 00:35:19,740
um

818
00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:23,220
Rob Christopherson was on Pan pericon

819
00:35:27,050 --> 00:35:25,260
the first time and he did a show that he

820
00:35:30,290 --> 00:35:27,060
he cut it it's on his podcast he's

821
00:35:32,270 --> 00:35:30,300
talking about African Encounters of UFOs

822
00:35:34,910 --> 00:35:32,280
and he's talking about one that like it

823
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:34,920
landed and then legs came out of the

824
00:35:40,970 --> 00:35:37,200
saucer and they were walking around and

825
00:35:41,690 --> 00:35:40,980
it's like and again it

826
00:35:45,290 --> 00:35:41,700
um

827
00:35:47,089 --> 00:35:45,300
it is that surreal logic of dreams like

828
00:35:50,329 --> 00:35:47,099
if you were if I was telling you had a

829
00:35:54,890 --> 00:35:50,339
dream and there's a flying saucer and

830
00:35:57,410 --> 00:35:54,900
then my it grew legs and it walked up to

831
00:36:00,050 --> 00:35:57,420
me and then my clothes changed and then

832
00:36:02,690 --> 00:36:00,060
something it wouldn't it wouldn't the

833
00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:02,700
part of that story like if I was telling

834
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:04,440
you that whole story is a dream you'd be

835
00:36:07,970 --> 00:36:07,440
sure and if I was like well actually

836
00:36:10,609 --> 00:36:07,980
um

837
00:36:13,609 --> 00:36:10,619
the part with the legs people saw it at

838
00:36:16,670 --> 00:36:13,619
and that's were trying to dovetail that

839
00:36:19,490 --> 00:36:16,680
into our or like it's like yeah I also

840
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:19,500
feel like when people are editing now I

841
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:21,060
see because unfortunately the internet

842
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:23,040
has ruined my mind like everyone else

843
00:36:27,410 --> 00:36:25,740
I've seen a big gift of jono it's his

844
00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:27,420
name just being like no that's that

845
00:36:34,130 --> 00:36:31,260
one's out yeah oh cutting that one out

846
00:36:36,109 --> 00:36:34,140
so I actually feel

847
00:36:37,849 --> 00:36:36,119
um get back kind of the original thing I

848
00:36:40,450 --> 00:36:37,859
do feel like

849
00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:40,460
these are the phenomena that people are

850
00:36:45,470 --> 00:36:42,900
encountering is a lot of the times

851
00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:45,480
weirder than

852
00:36:50,030 --> 00:36:46,500
um

853
00:36:53,089 --> 00:36:50,040
The Narrative it's worth considering

854
00:36:54,829 --> 00:36:53,099
um what we can like can we interpret the

855
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:54,839
same kind of use the same kind of

856
00:36:59,450 --> 00:36:57,359
interpretation or even when I say

857
00:37:02,030 --> 00:36:59,460
conscious thought this is where I'm like

858
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:02,040
think about it rather than just say I

859
00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:03,660
don't know I had a big machine like I

860
00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:05,460
don't know how many psi those legs are

861
00:37:09,550 --> 00:37:07,619
on but it's like why why did I see that

862
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:09,560
what did that mean

863
00:37:14,810 --> 00:37:13,200
that's a it's a Bernardo Castro uh I

864
00:37:18,349 --> 00:37:14,820
bring up his book meaning in absurdity

865
00:37:19,210 --> 00:37:18,359
she just finished it oh dude like a day

866
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:19,220
ago

867
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:21,960
amazing what are your thoughts what did

868
00:37:24,890 --> 00:37:23,280
you think about this because that's

869
00:37:27,050 --> 00:37:24,900
what's coming to mind as you're you're

870
00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:27,060
giving your view on this I think it's

871
00:37:32,270 --> 00:37:30,300
possible I think this is the the issue I

872
00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:32,280
think if I had any one issue with cash

873
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:35,880
drop this goes back to anything we

874
00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:38,880
really don't know anything

875
00:37:46,329 --> 00:37:43,020
and that's a little like I had um is

876
00:37:47,890 --> 00:37:46,339
anybody familiar with Dr Scott Rago

877
00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:47,900
okay

878
00:37:53,690 --> 00:37:50,760
I feel like Scott Rago should be famous

879
00:37:55,250 --> 00:37:53,700
on the level of Jacque Valley or Keel

880
00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:55,260
but

881
00:38:01,310 --> 00:37:57,660
um Rocco is a parapsychologist he was a

882
00:38:05,089 --> 00:38:01,320
real real deal parapsychologist and

883
00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:05,099
like I feel like Rago and Castro would

884
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:07,020
like if Rago was still alive they could

885
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:09,440
have a really good discussion because

886
00:38:14,329 --> 00:38:12,240
Rago would have agreed with cash drop up

887
00:38:16,970 --> 00:38:14,339
until the point where he said no it's

888
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:16,980
really happening like you're really like

889
00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:20,160
Psy is real and people are manifesting

890
00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:22,740
this stuff and it's not it's not like a

891
00:38:27,410 --> 00:38:25,320
jungian metaphor it's like they really

892
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:27,420
this guy really had enough juice to like

893
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:30,000
bring a flying saucer Out and because he

894
00:38:35,450 --> 00:38:33,119
talks one of Rodrigo's first book and I

895
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:35,460
know Castro talks about uh the miracle

896
00:38:43,069 --> 00:38:37,200
of Fatima

897
00:38:45,470 --> 00:38:43,079
okay and Rago is convinced that it was a

898
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,480
I I guess I hate I mean it's it's

899
00:38:50,329 --> 00:38:47,760
convenient literally sort of a comic

900
00:38:52,370 --> 00:38:50,339
book type of thing like the kids were

901
00:38:54,050 --> 00:38:52,380
there and they had the juice and they

902
00:38:56,270 --> 00:38:54,060
made the thing appear and people really

903
00:38:58,430 --> 00:38:56,280
saw it and they're really manifesting

904
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:58,440
and it really did put out some like UV

905
00:39:03,710 --> 00:39:01,680
and people got a tan and then it would

906
00:39:06,770 --> 00:39:03,720
pop that was one of the things I will

907
00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:06,780
say one of the most fun things is Keel

908
00:39:11,329 --> 00:39:09,060
has this hypothesis that Dove's tales

909
00:39:13,130 --> 00:39:11,339
with this that all of these creatures

910
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,140
are

911
00:39:17,630 --> 00:39:15,119
um assembled you know he's talking

912
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:17,640
they're the bad Cosmic intelligence is

913
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:19,440
assembling all these creatures the

914
00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:21,599
Bigfoot the saucer the Mothman whatever

915
00:39:24,849 --> 00:39:24,060
out of some kind of

916
00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:24,859
um

917
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:28,440
radioactive compound that has a really

918
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:30,720
high Half-Life and that's why they go

919
00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:31,680
poof

920
00:39:37,069 --> 00:39:34,680
you go you know you they're calling the

921
00:39:39,410 --> 00:39:37,079
Mothman into physical existence he

922
00:39:42,829 --> 00:39:39,420
exists he's got like a half radioactive

923
00:39:45,950 --> 00:39:42,839
half-life of 14 days

924
00:39:48,109 --> 00:39:45,960
that's why you know the rate the the

925
00:39:56,290 --> 00:39:48,119
um what is it it's the uh the blindness

926
00:40:02,690 --> 00:40:00,589
yeah fun but um not fun if you get it um

927
00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:02,700
I guess I could probably stand a little

928
00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:06,180
Mothman conjunctivitis but uh

929
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:08,220
um

930
00:40:12,589 --> 00:40:10,079
I uh

931
00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:12,599
I like it it's certainly possible I mean

932
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:17,640
I was also uh watching this thing

933
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:21,839
um a little earlier that was uh where's

934
00:40:25,849 --> 00:40:23,760
this thing Consciousness in the

935
00:40:28,609 --> 00:40:25,859
interface theory of perception Donald

936
00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:28,619
Hoffman yeah which I feel like Hoffman

937
00:40:33,170 --> 00:40:31,140
and Castro could probably those guys

938
00:40:36,050 --> 00:40:33,180
would probably like to hang out

939
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:36,060
yeah highly complimentary yeah yeah his

940
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:38,040
book um the case against reality is to

941
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,280
really worth reading I I do feel though

942
00:40:44,690 --> 00:40:43,200
that

943
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:44,700
um

944
00:40:49,310 --> 00:40:47,040
no matter what you're getting into using

945
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:49,320
using art like going to the art museum

946
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:51,599
going to the modern contemporary Gallery

947
00:40:55,550 --> 00:40:54,000
hanging out with surrealists also

948
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:55,560
hanging out the apps that's like the

949
00:41:00,349 --> 00:40:57,720
real abstract the abstract expressionist

950
00:41:01,910 --> 00:41:00,359
people as a pure form because one of the

951
00:41:03,530 --> 00:41:01,920
things I don't feel like we do ever

952
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:03,540
really well is communicate with these

953
00:41:10,910 --> 00:41:07,920
entities and you're looking at um

954
00:41:13,010 --> 00:41:10,920
with the abstract artists communication

955
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:13,020
really in the form of it's like most

956
00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:18,000
distilled pure emotion on there and

957
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:20,280
um I think you can you can kind of build

958
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:23,280
your internal tool kit looking at that

959
00:41:30,290 --> 00:41:26,400
stuff and reacting consciously and kind

960
00:41:32,030 --> 00:41:30,300
of noting it's it's I say it's sort of

961
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:32,040
akin to meditation but you're trying to

962
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:33,359
figure something out instead of figure

963
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:34,800
yourself out

964
00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:38,280
Jay I what's your experience uh as an

965
00:41:44,089 --> 00:41:41,220
artist are you an artist yourself yes

966
00:41:44,930 --> 00:41:44,099
um I am primarily so like a lot of

967
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,940
people

968
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:47,280
um kind of the arc you go is you want to

969
00:41:53,150 --> 00:41:49,760
be an artist and then you either

970
00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:53,160
become a fine artist and end up getting

971
00:41:58,210 --> 00:41:55,500
a job doing something else

972
00:42:00,650 --> 00:41:58,220
um walk out into getting into the system

973
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,660
of being able to like get in the

974
00:42:05,390 --> 00:42:03,119
galleries get into the stuff but that

975
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:05,400
generally requires

976
00:42:09,410 --> 00:42:07,680
um there's a lot of expense you have to

977
00:42:12,050 --> 00:42:09,420
have a masters for that

978
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:12,060
um so I have a I have a bachelor in Fine

979
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:15,839
Art I did print making and drawing

980
00:42:21,530 --> 00:42:19,440
um for my bachelors I mostly do

981
00:42:24,829 --> 00:42:21,540
photography now

982
00:42:28,730 --> 00:42:24,839
um really interested in in lens based

983
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:28,740
imagery and I then went and got another

984
00:42:32,270 --> 00:42:31,020
bachelor's double Bachelors two art

985
00:42:35,329 --> 00:42:32,280
degrees

986
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:35,339
um in graphic design and I work

987
00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:38,880
primarily in advertising and I see

988
00:42:42,109 --> 00:42:40,260
um

989
00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:42,119
those are sort of two sides of the same

990
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,540
coin um when I tell my students I said

991
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,880
um

992
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:49,440
advertising is

993
00:42:53,089 --> 00:42:50,400
um

994
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:53,099
using you know words and images to

995
00:42:57,130 --> 00:42:54,960
create a specific effect

996
00:42:59,690 --> 00:42:57,140
were

997
00:43:01,450 --> 00:42:59,700
I think it's me I I have this whole

998
00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:01,460
thing where I buy it

999
00:43:05,569 --> 00:43:03,660
yeah it's magic

1000
00:43:07,550 --> 00:43:05,579
um and I said basically we're just

1001
00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:07,560
trying we're trying to we create a soft

1002
00:43:12,170 --> 00:43:10,140
reality where there's the possibility of

1003
00:43:14,930 --> 00:43:12,180
the thing and then hopefully reality

1004
00:43:15,970 --> 00:43:14,940
hardens around it the one I one example

1005
00:43:20,089 --> 00:43:15,980
I always use

1006
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,099
my classes was um remember VR goggles

1007
00:43:25,069 --> 00:43:23,040
remember the VR goggles that

1008
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:25,079
um you put your phone in and everybody

1009
00:43:29,569 --> 00:43:27,599
got those for like Christmas is 2017.

1010
00:43:31,849 --> 00:43:29,579
mine are in the cabinet next to here I

1011
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:31,859
think they're probably pretty dusty but

1012
00:43:37,370 --> 00:43:34,880
that was a um

1013
00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:37,380
basically we're hitting the point it was

1014
00:43:40,730 --> 00:43:39,420
like we're gonna use psychic driving on

1015
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:40,740
the masses and this is one of those

1016
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:42,960
things like some Adam Curtis [\h__\h]

1017
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:45,599
Adam well like everybody's I I did a

1018
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:47,520
couple podcasts a year or two ago that

1019
00:43:52,370 --> 00:43:49,920
everybody like I hate to say this this

1020
00:43:55,130 --> 00:43:52,380
is either good or bad but um when

1021
00:43:57,970 --> 00:43:55,140
everybody hears like psyops and things

1022
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:57,980
of like Michael Aquino and stuff

1023
00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:01,920
or 85 percent of that is just basic like

1024
00:44:07,309 --> 00:44:05,160
Edward Bernays and advertising if you

1025
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:07,319
like you read grenays about propaganda

1026
00:44:14,510 --> 00:44:12,240
and public relations and then

1027
00:44:17,210 --> 00:44:14,520
um and just kind of get into it and and

1028
00:44:19,309 --> 00:44:17,220
work on it and work on some basic like

1029
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:19,319
Robert Shield you need basic low-level

1030
00:44:24,290 --> 00:44:22,260
compliance techniques that's really what

1031
00:44:29,569 --> 00:44:24,300
it's like it's like psyop sounds cool

1032
00:44:32,510 --> 00:44:29,579
like psyop sounds like I am in Cobra and

1033
00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:32,520
I'm like oversized guy and I've got like

1034
00:44:37,809 --> 00:44:35,160
a backpack with a dish antenna and it's

1035
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:37,819
like but

1036
00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:40,560
by and large it's just

1037
00:44:42,290 --> 00:44:41,400
[Music]

1038
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:42,300
um

1039
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:46,200
the basics of of those guys and I think

1040
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,440
um you know art on the other hand can be

1041
00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:51,839
art doesn't have to communicate to

1042
00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:54,060
everybody effectively or can be more

1043
00:45:00,650 --> 00:44:57,420
selective and art art can deal with

1044
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:00,660
these things that are I do feel like one

1045
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:03,599
of the things and um the art can do is

1046
00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:06,060
transcend the limits of spoken and

1047
00:45:11,809 --> 00:45:08,900
written language I feel like it can

1048
00:45:13,930 --> 00:45:11,819
convey the inevitable and the Phantasm

1049
00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:13,940
of gorick and

1050
00:45:20,809 --> 00:45:15,660
go

1051
00:45:25,069 --> 00:45:20,819
um if you let it bypass a lot of that

1052
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:25,079
um rational build up you have and really

1053
00:45:30,349 --> 00:45:27,720
communicate to you on a deep level

1054
00:45:33,230 --> 00:45:30,359
I also think you can do like magic with

1055
00:45:36,849 --> 00:45:33,240
art but that's like a whole other

1056
00:45:39,530 --> 00:45:38,569
what about

1057
00:45:41,690 --> 00:45:39,540
um

1058
00:45:44,569 --> 00:45:41,700
what do you think about Hopkins some

1059
00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:44,579
somebody like Bud Hopkins or um

1060
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:47,160
who's the other guy Whitley strieber uh

1061
00:45:52,670 --> 00:45:50,400
both artists what do they bring even a

1062
00:45:53,870 --> 00:45:52,680
like their science is a little bit wonky

1063
00:45:56,450 --> 00:45:53,880
let's say

1064
00:45:59,089 --> 00:45:56,460
like what do they bring as artists to

1065
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,099
the discussion I think

1066
00:46:03,170 --> 00:46:00,480
um

1067
00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:03,180
it has made streamer and I can't

1068
00:46:08,329 --> 00:46:05,880
remember I'm trying to I'm trying to I'm

1069
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:08,339
not like up on my bud Hopkins lore

1070
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,260
although I have his like he just there's

1071
00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:13,200
a book a new book out on him that I want

1072
00:46:19,849 --> 00:46:17,400
to get but I think with streber

1073
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:19,859
um personally I think it's made him a

1074
00:46:25,849 --> 00:46:22,800
really is it's really made him um an

1075
00:46:28,370 --> 00:46:25,859
effective Communicator like strieber for

1076
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:28,380
me I remember being terrified of

1077
00:46:33,130 --> 00:46:31,260
communion like a lot of people were when

1078
00:46:36,290 --> 00:46:33,140
they first read it yeah

1079
00:46:36,890 --> 00:46:36,300
well the book cover too

1080
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,900
um

1081
00:46:40,970 --> 00:46:38,160
but

1082
00:46:42,050 --> 00:46:40,980
the book cover that always makes me

1083
00:46:45,290 --> 00:46:42,060
wonder

1084
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:45,300
um what like low-level symbolic language

1085
00:46:50,990 --> 00:46:48,240
is embedded in that face because man

1086
00:46:52,430 --> 00:46:51,000
that's really but I do think I think

1087
00:46:53,329 --> 00:46:52,440
streber

1088
00:46:55,309 --> 00:46:53,339
um

1089
00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:55,319
is able

1090
00:47:00,349 --> 00:46:57,780
being in touch with those emotions was

1091
00:47:03,770 --> 00:47:00,359
able to actually do a better job writing

1092
00:47:06,670 --> 00:47:03,780
from that although I compare

1093
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:06,680
um streber to somebody like who's the

1094
00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:09,839
have you seen the um love and saucers

1095
00:47:14,990 --> 00:47:11,460
documentary

1096
00:47:16,849 --> 00:47:15,000
everyone okay this is on

1097
00:47:19,130 --> 00:47:16,859
um Prime streaming

1098
00:47:20,690 --> 00:47:19,140
um this guy uh

1099
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:20,700
uh you can remove the Fella's name but

1100
00:47:27,290 --> 00:47:23,760
he's his like Soul romantic and sexual

1101
00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:27,300
encounter in life was with an alien

1102
00:47:33,890 --> 00:47:31,380
um he's painted numerous pictures of her

1103
00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:33,900
and their life together and his hybrid

1104
00:47:38,329 --> 00:47:36,660
children and the Mantis and the other

1105
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:38,339
and I think

1106
00:47:42,050 --> 00:47:40,500
um for him he's able to tell like he's

1107
00:47:44,329 --> 00:47:42,060
able to tell a much more coherent story

1108
00:47:47,150 --> 00:47:44,339
with his images than he is with words I

1109
00:47:49,849 --> 00:47:47,160
don't know streber really was able to

1110
00:47:53,150 --> 00:47:49,859
bridge the gap between language and

1111
00:47:56,210 --> 00:47:53,160
visual imagery or be very evocative in

1112
00:47:57,950 --> 00:47:56,220
his it is prose but uh that's a wild

1113
00:48:00,829 --> 00:47:57,960
ride by the way everybody should check

1114
00:48:03,530 --> 00:48:00,839
that out it's not that long it's like a

1115
00:48:04,670 --> 00:48:03,540
real short documentary and it's just

1116
00:48:07,490 --> 00:48:04,680
um

1117
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,500
again one of those like

1118
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:10,079
sort of does bridge that imagery like if

1119
00:48:14,510 --> 00:48:11,520
you just said these were surrealist

1120
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:14,520
paintings and these all came from

1121
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:16,319
the dream world

1122
00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:17,520
bubbled up from the collective

1123
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:19,380
unconsciousness if you're if you're

1124
00:48:24,410 --> 00:48:22,800
young again like um cash drop and some

1125
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:24,420
of the

1126
00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:26,720
um actual

1127
00:48:31,609 --> 00:48:29,460
surrealists in the school were

1128
00:48:33,530 --> 00:48:31,619
I believe they were they were getting

1129
00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:33,540
into that

1130
00:48:38,510 --> 00:48:36,660
um I also look um at Kandinsky who's

1131
00:48:40,849 --> 00:48:38,520
been reading kandinsky's concerning the

1132
00:48:44,210 --> 00:48:40,859
spiritual and art this week and

1133
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:44,220
Kandinsky really believes that

1134
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:45,060
um

1135
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:47,280
there is

1136
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:51,359
a supernatural element to being able to

1137
00:48:59,390 --> 00:48:54,960
use um color and shape to convey meaning

1138
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,400
directly into the soul of the the

1139
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,400
um viewer you know if you know whatever

1140
00:49:07,069 --> 00:49:04,319
I don't know if it's just like if you

1141
00:49:09,410 --> 00:49:07,079
know Mind Body Soul

1142
00:49:11,569 --> 00:49:09,420
whatever your Paradigm for that is he

1143
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:11,579
really thought that that was that was a

1144
00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:14,160
distinct possibility

1145
00:49:17,630 --> 00:49:16,680
and he was doing that

1146
00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:17,640
thank you

1147
00:49:21,710 --> 00:49:20,700
but Kandinsky and those guys were all

1148
00:49:26,930 --> 00:49:21,720
big

1149
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:26,940
they were that's what I was

1150
00:49:29,809 --> 00:49:27,920
yeah

1151
00:49:35,210 --> 00:49:29,819
that's what I was thinking of as

1152
00:49:37,849 --> 00:49:35,220
theosophy and thought forms by yeah

1153
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:37,859
um because that's it feels like they're

1154
00:49:43,450 --> 00:49:39,780
closely intertwined with Kandinsky as

1155
00:49:48,109 --> 00:49:43,460
well the things I keep running into

1156
00:49:49,790 --> 00:49:48,119
in disparate studies between

1157
00:49:53,089 --> 00:49:49,800
um

1158
00:49:56,930 --> 00:49:53,099
artists and SCI in the Paranormal are

1159
00:50:00,349 --> 00:49:56,940
the the root of the theosophists

1160
00:50:04,849 --> 00:50:00,359
um and just kind of the Sacred shapes of

1161
00:50:07,069 --> 00:50:04,859
uh circle square triangle which

1162
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:07,079
um really were prominent in the movement

1163
00:50:13,370 --> 00:50:09,960
called neoplastic Art which is I posted

1164
00:50:16,849 --> 00:50:13,380
uh my cool Hot Wheels truck uh

1165
00:50:18,650 --> 00:50:16,859
um pet Mondrian was a was a neoplast

1166
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:18,660
assist and he really believed that that

1167
00:50:24,109 --> 00:50:21,780
was rep like his art was with those

1168
00:50:26,450 --> 00:50:24,119
limited callers and geometric shapes was

1169
00:50:27,730 --> 00:50:26,460
conveying the spiritual truth

1170
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:27,740
um

1171
00:50:35,630 --> 00:50:33,359
spiritualist she was a spiritist

1172
00:50:38,150 --> 00:50:35,640
important difference

1173
00:50:39,890 --> 00:50:38,160
um and a lot of those a lot of those

1174
00:50:42,770 --> 00:50:39,900
people also

1175
00:50:44,930 --> 00:50:42,780
um were big Believers and this again I

1176
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:44,940
feel like this this kind of dovetails

1177
00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:47,760
going back to um Castro barago depending

1178
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:50,220
on what flavor of

1179
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:52,559
um this is this is really real or it's

1180
00:50:58,970 --> 00:50:55,920
real but not real uh

1181
00:51:01,309 --> 00:50:58,980
using um intuitive writing and intuitive

1182
00:51:03,470 --> 00:51:01,319
drawing to draw those ideas out and

1183
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:03,480
organize them but I just picked up

1184
00:51:08,030 --> 00:51:05,520
because I love Comics I picked up that

1185
00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:08,040
um mutants and Mystics the Supernatural

1186
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:10,260
and comic are and the first thing the

1187
00:51:14,750 --> 00:51:12,319
guy references in his his

1188
00:51:17,089 --> 00:51:14,760
acknowledgments is

1189
00:51:24,170 --> 00:51:19,370
mind to mind

1190
00:51:28,010 --> 00:51:24,180
by renewal Collier which is a um

1191
00:51:28,910 --> 00:51:28,020
popular uh I guess this was popular

1192
00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:28,920
um

1193
00:51:34,130 --> 00:51:32,099
Inigo Inigo Swann wrote the preface for

1194
00:51:35,690 --> 00:51:34,140
it this was kind of 60s 70s but didn't

1195
00:51:38,750 --> 00:51:35,700
really he was French didn't really make

1196
00:51:42,670 --> 00:51:38,760
it big into the U.S talking about

1197
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:42,680
um us sharing these

1198
00:51:48,650 --> 00:51:46,079
subconscious unconscious images and in

1199
00:51:50,690 --> 00:51:48,660
our dreams via states of mental

1200
00:51:55,390 --> 00:51:50,700
telepathy

1201
00:51:59,089 --> 00:51:55,400
see part of what if you if you buy into

1202
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:59,099
what Castro is talking about about

1203
00:52:04,670 --> 00:52:01,200
um basically they're being us all being

1204
00:52:06,770 --> 00:52:04,680
linked by the collective unconscious and

1205
00:52:10,430 --> 00:52:06,780
these events bubbling up through the

1206
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:10,440
collective unconscious then using art as

1207
00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:13,200
your foothold to start unraveling the

1208
00:52:19,490 --> 00:52:15,720
stuff becomes very useful because it's

1209
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:19,500
not solely personally significant

1210
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:22,800
anymore then it's becoming there's some

1211
00:52:28,730 --> 00:52:25,920
levels of significance to us as a people

1212
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:28,740
as certain

1213
00:52:33,410 --> 00:52:29,359
um

1214
00:52:35,650 --> 00:52:33,420
symbols like the Flying Saucer or the or

1215
00:52:38,030 --> 00:52:35,660
Bigfoot keep reoccurring

1216
00:52:42,829 --> 00:52:38,040
well Jay you mentioned abstract

1217
00:52:45,230 --> 00:52:42,839
expressionism and in anthropology the um

1218
00:52:47,329 --> 00:52:45,240
you know when cave art started appearing

1219
00:52:49,849 --> 00:52:47,339
it's considered a very important time in

1220
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:49,859
The evolutionary history right it's uh

1221
00:52:54,770 --> 00:52:52,800
humans coming up with novel things and

1222
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:54,780
uh it seems to me that there's a natural

1223
00:52:58,670 --> 00:52:56,880
process or maybe something more

1224
00:53:01,670 --> 00:52:58,680
occurring in the human mind I'm a

1225
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:01,680
materialist I admit it but um it clearly

1226
00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:03,660
is a fundamental process occurring

1227
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:04,920
throughout human history We have

1228
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:07,200
basically every culture describing these

1229
00:53:11,870 --> 00:53:09,720
uh sort of similar experiences of uh

1230
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:11,880
what we in the modern world use and once

1231
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:13,280
again the language comes in information

1232
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:15,720
downloads and historically we'd have it

1233
00:53:20,569 --> 00:53:18,240
be a supernatural entity uh having uh

1234
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,579
use communing with uh you know the

1235
00:53:23,930 --> 00:53:21,839
Supernatural and then we have people

1236
00:53:25,849 --> 00:53:23,940
like Nikola Tesla and things describing

1237
00:53:28,190 --> 00:53:25,859
something very similar but through a

1238
00:53:30,109 --> 00:53:28,200
scientific lens uh perhaps again because

1239
00:53:31,730 --> 00:53:30,119
he was so into electromagnetism and now

1240
00:53:32,930 --> 00:53:31,740
we have all these things about uh you

1241
00:53:34,730 --> 00:53:32,940
know the coasts and all that perhaps

1242
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:34,740
being associated with that but so

1243
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:36,000
there's an interpretive element and now

1244
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,440
we have the in the modern science

1245
00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:39,119
language people are describing the same

1246
00:53:42,530 --> 00:53:40,980
kind of thing a novel experience of

1247
00:53:45,530 --> 00:53:42,540
something kind of appearing in your mind

1248
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:45,540
and uh interpreting that as coming from

1249
00:53:48,349 --> 00:53:47,040
outside your mind so there's no question

1250
00:53:50,089 --> 00:53:48,359
that's a subjective experienced people

1251
00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:50,099
have been having through history as an

1252
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:52,740
artist Jay I'm curious if you've had an

1253
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:56,160
experience like that and uh if not uh

1254
00:54:01,150 --> 00:53:57,839
you what do you make of those kinds of

1255
00:54:06,650 --> 00:54:04,130
I haven't had a bull from the blue but

1256
00:54:08,329 --> 00:54:06,660
I've had a lot of thoughts about process

1257
00:54:11,870 --> 00:54:08,339
recently

1258
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:13,130
again

1259
00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:18,720
um I took a uh class at the Orion School

1260
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,420
and it was called artist size taught by

1261
00:54:25,970 --> 00:54:24,000
Dr chantral top row who's a really

1262
00:54:27,650 --> 00:54:25,980
interesting character

1263
00:54:31,069 --> 00:54:27,660
um you should check her out she used to

1264
00:54:34,849 --> 00:54:31,079
be uh I think she used to work for JPL

1265
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:34,859
but now now she's um and she's also

1266
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:37,200
investigated for mufon and did a lot of

1267
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:40,319
stuff and it's part of the paper for

1268
00:54:46,190 --> 00:54:44,040
um that I did a

1269
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:46,200
paper on

1270
00:54:49,970 --> 00:54:47,040
um

1271
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:49,980
radionics and art and I don't know if

1272
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:51,839
again are people anybody familiar with

1273
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:55,680
radionics okay radionics is um depending

1274
00:55:01,609 --> 00:54:58,319
on who you ask it's uh either a

1275
00:55:03,309 --> 00:55:01,619
suppressed Miracle technology or junk

1276
00:55:05,569 --> 00:55:03,319
pseudoscience

1277
00:55:06,589 --> 00:55:05,579
yes and

1278
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:06,599
um

1279
00:55:11,930 --> 00:55:08,880
kind of the thing that went

1280
00:55:15,650 --> 00:55:11,940
um went through the early 20th century

1281
00:55:19,150 --> 00:55:15,660
uh people are are pioneering

1282
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,160
um radionics treatment to diagnose

1283
00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:21,440
illnesses and then

1284
00:55:27,290 --> 00:55:23,760
to um

1285
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:27,300
eventually treat them sort of related to

1286
00:55:32,569 --> 00:55:30,240
some other things kind of like you could

1287
00:55:35,809 --> 00:55:32,579
you could put it on the same Shelf with

1288
00:55:37,549 --> 00:55:35,819
uh chromatherapy and

1289
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:37,559
um you could put your radionics machine

1290
00:55:45,470 --> 00:55:41,040
next to your organ accumulator

1291
00:55:47,270 --> 00:55:45,480
um so kind of vibing on that but um one

1292
00:55:50,450 --> 00:55:47,280
of the one of the things one of the main

1293
00:55:50,990 --> 00:55:50,460
evolutionary factors in

1294
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:51,000
um

1295
00:55:56,690 --> 00:55:53,520
the development of radionics was the was

1296
00:56:00,109 --> 00:55:56,700
the development of the literal

1297
00:56:03,650 --> 00:56:00,119
um user interface of these machines

1298
00:56:06,109 --> 00:56:03,660
because they're they're machines and

1299
00:56:07,609 --> 00:56:06,119
um people you'll laugh at this like if

1300
00:56:09,950 --> 00:56:07,619
you see it that it's you're turning

1301
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:09,960
dials and you're moving your finger

1302
00:56:13,549 --> 00:56:11,760
until you feel your fingers stop and

1303
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:13,559
that's how you need to die also

1304
00:56:19,609 --> 00:56:16,319
and this is how you you develop your

1305
00:56:20,950 --> 00:56:19,619
your setting on your machine but

1306
00:56:23,390 --> 00:56:20,960
um

1307
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:23,400
another artist who's a radionics

1308
00:56:28,609 --> 00:56:26,760
practitioner guy uh Duncan Laurie wrote

1309
00:56:32,809 --> 00:56:28,619
a book called The Secret art which is an

1310
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:32,819
excellent history of of this whole um I

1311
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:36,960
I let's view it as a um pseudoscience in

1312
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:40,319
Wars like the first like honestly

1313
00:56:48,770 --> 00:56:45,119
modern Paradigm for Magical practice but

1314
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:48,780
um what he talks about is the um I'm

1315
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:50,400
sorry I'm really taking the long way

1316
00:56:55,970 --> 00:56:53,520
around the barn with this but um that

1317
00:57:00,109 --> 00:56:55,980
the stick is

1318
00:57:03,049 --> 00:57:00,119
the equivalent to the dial signal reflex

1319
00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:03,059
and the dowsing reflex

1320
00:57:05,930 --> 00:57:04,380
um there's I didn't realize this there's

1321
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:05,940
a lot of debate among downstairs whether

1322
00:57:10,970 --> 00:57:08,240
that comes from within or from without

1323
00:57:13,609 --> 00:57:10,980
whether that's a external manifestation

1324
00:57:16,010 --> 00:57:13,619
or something or an inward process but

1325
00:57:17,990 --> 00:57:16,020
what I realized

1326
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:18,000
um and you were talking about this going

1327
00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:20,400
back to the the cave people and some of

1328
00:57:24,049 --> 00:57:22,079
this um

1329
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:24,059
I realize it's a combination of things

1330
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:26,160
when I was talking about art because you

1331
00:57:32,030 --> 00:57:28,140
don't teach art by Theory you teach art

1332
00:57:35,870 --> 00:57:32,040
by doing and basically

1333
00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:35,880
it again is that feeling that in so I

1334
00:57:41,210 --> 00:57:38,160
have really come to see the the

1335
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:41,220
decision-making process for me as an

1336
00:57:47,089 --> 00:57:44,640
artist as akin to the dowsing Brave Flex

1337
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:47,099
the dowsin process

1338
00:57:52,849 --> 00:57:50,640
and this is I'm just going to interrupt

1339
00:57:55,490 --> 00:57:52,859
this is killing me because I always talk

1340
00:57:57,049 --> 00:57:55,500
about the relationship between dowsing

1341
00:57:57,890 --> 00:57:57,059
and

1342
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:57,900
um

1343
00:58:01,309 --> 00:57:59,760
like like what you're saying like

1344
00:58:02,690 --> 00:58:01,319
creativity

1345
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:02,700
um and also

1346
00:58:08,329 --> 00:58:06,000
um like getting a sense of like what the

1347
00:58:10,970 --> 00:58:08,339
next move is like what is the next best

1348
00:58:12,109 --> 00:58:10,980
step to take with something I always and

1349
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:12,119
that's something I've taught I don't

1350
00:58:14,990 --> 00:58:13,200
know if I've talked about on this show

1351
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,000
but it's so wild to hear someone else

1352
00:58:20,089 --> 00:58:17,760
talk about this sort of dowsing as an

1353
00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:20,099
applied thing outside of just trying to

1354
00:58:24,170 --> 00:58:21,780
find water

1355
00:58:26,510 --> 00:58:24,180
so it's part of the creative process I

1356
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:26,520
do think there are like I do think we

1357
00:58:30,589 --> 00:58:29,520
come whether this is again is am I

1358
00:58:32,990 --> 00:58:30,599
channeling this from the collective

1359
00:58:35,450 --> 00:58:33,000
unconscious or does it come pre-loaded

1360
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:35,460
um we do have some software that helps

1361
00:58:39,410 --> 00:58:37,440
us make those decisions

1362
00:58:43,450 --> 00:58:39,420
um I don't know anybody's familiar with

1363
00:58:50,270 --> 00:58:47,870
it has to do with the organization of

1364
00:58:52,910 --> 00:58:50,280
um how we perceive the organization of

1365
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:52,920
things and it's really Elementary and

1366
00:58:57,410 --> 00:58:54,720
it's kind of like

1367
00:59:00,349 --> 00:58:57,420
basically you know if I'm like I have

1368
00:59:03,289 --> 00:59:00,359
two tools and if they're here they're

1369
00:59:05,150 --> 00:59:03,299
not together and if they're here they're

1370
00:59:06,530 --> 00:59:05,160
symbolically linked in our mind is this

1371
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:06,540
together even though when you really

1372
00:59:11,630 --> 00:59:08,520
think about it there's nothing

1373
00:59:14,349 --> 00:59:11,640
that's linking them other than proximity

1374
00:59:16,849 --> 00:59:14,359
and there's a lot of Gestalt like

1375
00:59:18,890 --> 00:59:16,859
Gestalt examples and I don't want to say

1376
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:18,900
tricks but there's like these are ways

1377
00:59:26,089 --> 00:59:22,799
you can apply Gestalt to create

1378
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:26,099
um effect and flow in

1379
00:59:31,069 --> 00:59:29,520
graphic design user experience Etc and

1380
00:59:34,730 --> 00:59:31,079
then that in turn influences human

1381
00:59:37,609 --> 00:59:34,740
behavior but um I think it's it's really

1382
00:59:41,390 --> 00:59:37,619
it's a combination of having that kind

1383
00:59:43,130 --> 00:59:41,400
of low level operating system for uh how

1384
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:43,140
we organize things visually and then

1385
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:45,599
using and

1386
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,760
really and this is where I end up

1387
00:59:51,049 --> 00:59:49,200
telling my students when I'm teaching

1388
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:51,059
it's like you have to do a lot of stuff

1389
00:59:56,569 --> 00:59:53,760
like you have to go down a lot you have

1390
00:59:59,870 --> 00:59:56,579
to create a lot of work you have to do

1391
01:00:02,770 --> 00:59:59,880
this a lot because that's really you

1392
01:00:06,049 --> 01:00:02,780
learning to listen to that Intuition or

1393
01:00:08,089 --> 01:00:06,059
PSI impulse or whatever we're calling it

1394
01:00:11,569 --> 01:00:08,099
I don't think I I don't think I went to

1395
01:00:13,490 --> 01:00:11,579
cyan pulse in my in my class I don't

1396
01:00:14,990 --> 01:00:13,500
know if the children they're they're

1397
01:00:16,849 --> 01:00:15,000
College seniors but I don't know if the

1398
01:00:18,589 --> 01:00:16,859
children would have appreciated that or

1399
01:00:20,329 --> 01:00:18,599
not but um

1400
01:00:23,450 --> 01:00:20,339
so

1401
01:00:24,410 --> 01:00:23,460
um while not having uh again like not

1402
01:00:28,430 --> 01:00:24,420
having

1403
01:00:30,349 --> 01:00:28,440
front of a piece in a museum or created

1404
01:00:32,089 --> 01:00:30,359
a piece and felt that like again like

1405
01:00:33,470 --> 01:00:32,099
the give me that give me that Bayless

1406
01:00:36,349 --> 01:00:33,480
laser

1407
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:36,359
um that zap I haven't had that yet but I

1408
01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:39,599
definitely the only this is basically

1409
01:00:43,309 --> 01:00:41,040
the the

1410
01:00:46,670 --> 01:00:43,319
um honing your ability to listen to your

1411
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:46,680
intuition through that akin to dowsing

1412
01:00:53,450 --> 01:00:48,240
is basically

1413
01:00:56,329 --> 01:00:54,890
I want to go back and talk about

1414
01:00:58,670 --> 01:00:56,339
something you touched on really early

1415
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:58,680
absolutely you were talking about uh

1416
01:01:03,650 --> 01:01:00,240
pampericon which I do want to hear more

1417
01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:03,660
about too absolutely but specifically

1418
01:01:08,990 --> 01:01:06,119
you did a piece on Tech in the

1419
01:01:11,450 --> 01:01:09,000
Paranormal and you focused on EMF meters

1420
01:01:12,589 --> 01:01:11,460
I've personally been trying to kind of

1421
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:12,599
find the

1422
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:16,559
origin of that practice me too oh okay

1423
01:01:23,390 --> 01:01:20,160
okay let's talk about this yeah so the

1424
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:23,400
earliest ice well I have theories about

1425
01:01:28,130 --> 01:01:25,040
it but the earliest I see like

1426
01:01:28,849 --> 01:01:28,140
application and use of that that's

1427
01:01:30,770 --> 01:01:28,859
um

1428
01:01:32,569 --> 01:01:30,780
that people would even know would you

1429
01:01:36,170 --> 01:01:32,579
know be early episodes like sightings

1430
01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:36,180
with uh Dr William roll bringing in

1431
01:01:41,930 --> 01:01:38,520
um electronic equipment essentially to

1432
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,940
test Michael persinger's theories right

1433
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:43,440
um and I think producers kind of picked

1434
01:01:47,390 --> 01:01:44,880
up on that and that's why you see it on

1435
01:01:49,670 --> 01:01:47,400
TV now because they wanted something

1436
01:01:50,750 --> 01:01:49,680
that can ghost uh Ghostbusters you know

1437
01:01:52,490 --> 01:01:50,760
waving

1438
01:01:55,549 --> 01:01:52,500
a thing around but do you know anything

1439
01:01:58,849 --> 01:01:55,559
more about this no I've been digging two

1440
01:02:02,630 --> 01:01:58,859
so the best that I have found

1441
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:02,640
um I found a couple of very

1442
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:03,359
um

1443
01:02:11,089 --> 01:02:07,920
you know in terms of web years like 98

1444
01:02:14,089 --> 01:02:11,099
um era ghost hunting equipment like

1445
01:02:17,030 --> 01:02:14,099
here's what you can buy I'm thinking

1446
01:02:20,930 --> 01:02:17,040
that I'm thinking the the enter the the

1447
01:02:24,890 --> 01:02:20,940
Zeitgeist with Ghost Hunters I mean if

1448
01:02:27,289 --> 01:02:24,900
that show basically only things that I

1449
01:02:29,870 --> 01:02:27,299
found scientifically weren't about EMF

1450
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:29,880
strictly it was a other I found some

1451
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:32,160
papers in the 70s and I still need to um

1452
01:02:36,770 --> 01:02:35,760
Pony up the cash to read right from the

1453
01:02:39,049 --> 01:02:36,780
Rhine and from some other

1454
01:02:42,730 --> 01:02:39,059
parapsychologist parapsychologists

1455
01:02:46,670 --> 01:02:42,740
studies about more about electricity

1456
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:46,680
and um the possible connection of

1457
01:02:51,950 --> 01:02:50,160
electricity in the spirit world but the

1458
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:51,960
the meters

1459
01:02:55,730 --> 01:02:52,799
um

1460
01:02:59,329 --> 01:02:55,740
yeah I don't haven't worked as the

1461
01:03:00,650 --> 01:02:59,339
meters are like a ritual tool I I liked

1462
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:00,660
how you described them in the beginning

1463
01:03:04,130 --> 01:03:02,640
like they are the Talisman you bring in

1464
01:03:06,589 --> 01:03:04,140
the ritual because that is essentially

1465
01:03:08,089 --> 01:03:06,599
what's happening now but I think that

1466
01:03:09,650 --> 01:03:08,099
yeah back in

1467
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:09,660
I'm not sure if it was happening anytime

1468
01:03:14,210 --> 01:03:11,760
between the 60s and the 80s when

1469
01:03:17,030 --> 01:03:14,220
parapsychology and ghost hunting kind of

1470
01:03:19,370 --> 01:03:17,040
crossed over and the attendees of of

1471
01:03:22,430 --> 01:03:19,380
kind of one group was uh visiting the

1472
01:03:25,490 --> 01:03:22,440
lectures of the other and we were um

1473
01:03:27,650 --> 01:03:25,500
essentially trying to quantify uh the

1474
01:03:29,210 --> 01:03:27,660
secular Soul which is what these

1475
01:03:32,030 --> 01:03:29,220
energies are that they're trying to be

1476
01:03:33,470 --> 01:03:32,040
looking for kind of a replacement I feel

1477
01:03:36,589 --> 01:03:33,480
like yeah

1478
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:36,599
I feel like all of that in the in the

1479
01:03:42,890 --> 01:03:39,599
Heyday that Heyday of parapsychology was

1480
01:03:44,990 --> 01:03:42,900
all laboratory setting stuff though I

1481
01:03:49,130 --> 01:03:45,000
don't feel anybody was running around

1482
01:03:52,010 --> 01:03:49,140
because those tools originally are like

1483
01:03:54,049 --> 01:03:52,020
tools for cable installers right you're

1484
01:03:56,930 --> 01:03:54,059
also save them right you're supposed to

1485
01:04:00,890 --> 01:03:56,940
aren't they supposed to be level yeah

1486
01:04:04,069 --> 01:04:00,900
I mean it's a little our our application

1487
01:04:07,490 --> 01:04:04,079
well this is my root of that is we're

1488
01:04:09,230 --> 01:04:07,500
doing we decisions I I have the same

1489
01:04:11,210 --> 01:04:09,240
things I feel like decisions have been

1490
01:04:14,210 --> 01:04:11,220
made at some point and I don't know if

1491
01:04:16,370 --> 01:04:14,220
this is us doing our best because you

1492
01:04:18,170 --> 01:04:16,380
know you also you go on um I remember

1493
01:04:19,130 --> 01:04:18,180
stumbling

1494
01:04:22,250 --> 01:04:19,140
um

1495
01:04:25,730 --> 01:04:22,260
years ago like five years ago on a ghost

1496
01:04:28,970 --> 01:04:25,740
hunting equipment website and I this was

1497
01:04:30,470 --> 01:04:28,980
kind of like this is real oh my God I

1498
01:04:31,849 --> 01:04:30,480
was like I want all this stuff too

1499
01:04:34,730 --> 01:04:31,859
because I'm gonna take it apart and play

1500
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:34,740
with it and see what's what's in there

1501
01:04:39,289 --> 01:04:37,440
which is how I found out everybody at

1502
01:04:41,750 --> 01:04:39,299
home make your own REM pods they're just

1503
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:41,760
theremins you can get theremin kits on

1504
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:43,440
you

1505
01:04:46,970 --> 01:04:44,400
um

1506
01:04:49,490 --> 01:04:46,980
don't don't pay that big don't pay that

1507
01:04:52,849 --> 01:04:49,500
big REM pod money

1508
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:52,859
um can you talk about the um

1509
01:04:58,250 --> 01:04:56,160
uh the differences between uh Keel and

1510
01:05:00,349 --> 01:04:58,260
valet and maybe why valet never really

1511
01:05:01,670 --> 01:05:00,359
got into the Cryptids

1512
01:05:03,109 --> 01:05:01,680
um

1513
01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:03,119
I don't

1514
01:05:06,230 --> 01:05:03,839
um

1515
01:05:08,990 --> 01:05:06,240
I actually really think the differences

1516
01:05:10,910 --> 01:05:09,000
between Keel and valet was the valley it

1517
01:05:12,049 --> 01:05:10,920
was a scientist in Keel was a newspaper

1518
01:05:17,630 --> 01:05:12,059
man

1519
01:05:19,690 --> 01:05:17,640
I feel like uh I feel like kill

1520
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:19,700
um

1521
01:05:24,410 --> 01:05:22,559
I feel like Keel was more like me for

1522
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:24,420
lack of a better term he's a Layman and

1523
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:26,160
he got drawn into this stuff and he was

1524
01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:27,839
making a buck from it although I'm not

1525
01:05:30,770 --> 01:05:29,940
making a buck from this

1526
01:05:34,430 --> 01:05:30,780
um

1527
01:05:37,010 --> 01:05:34,440
nor am I trying but I feel like valet

1528
01:05:37,970 --> 01:05:37,020
was really

1529
01:05:40,910 --> 01:05:37,980
um

1530
01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:40,920
trying to be a scientist at first

1531
01:05:45,710 --> 01:05:44,700
and I feel like valet really

1532
01:05:48,410 --> 01:05:45,720
um

1533
01:05:50,990 --> 01:05:48,420
so I have a better way to to put it I

1534
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:51,000
feel like valet's early work especially

1535
01:05:56,329 --> 01:05:53,520
past part of Magonia is really Paradigm

1536
01:06:01,130 --> 01:05:56,339
to finding where I feel like

1537
01:06:03,650 --> 01:06:01,140
heal on the other hand grabbed the um

1538
01:06:08,329 --> 01:06:03,660
the pop culture

1539
01:06:10,130 --> 01:06:08,339
heart and while the aficionados of the

1540
01:06:13,609 --> 01:06:10,140
weird are familiar with both of those

1541
01:06:16,250 --> 01:06:13,619
those guys I feel like heels when you

1542
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:16,260
think about like everybody's red Mothman

1543
01:06:20,569 --> 01:06:18,240
Prophecies not a lot of people have read

1544
01:06:23,089 --> 01:06:20,579
eighth Tower he's got some other

1545
01:06:25,309 --> 01:06:23,099
um Anthology stuff and

1546
01:06:26,930 --> 01:06:25,319
other than

1547
01:06:29,210 --> 01:06:26,940
um and I mean like one of the things

1548
01:06:33,289 --> 01:06:29,220
that's like a lot of people like people

1549
01:06:35,529 --> 01:06:33,299
have also made uh injured cold into kind

1550
01:06:38,270 --> 01:06:35,539
of that same level of like celebrity

1551
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:38,280
character as the Mothman and the eighth

1552
01:06:43,250 --> 01:06:40,880
Tower he's like that was [\h__\h]

1553
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:43,260
you know like that guy didn't believe

1554
01:06:46,970 --> 01:06:44,400
that guy

1555
01:06:49,609 --> 01:06:46,980
so I don't

1556
01:06:52,849 --> 01:06:49,619
um I think their approach is just you

1557
01:06:55,010 --> 01:06:52,859
know journalist versus scientist and it

1558
01:06:57,170 --> 01:06:55,020
yielded really different results and I

1559
01:06:59,870 --> 01:06:57,180
think it even yielded different results

1560
01:07:01,849 --> 01:06:59,880
in how

1561
01:07:03,529 --> 01:07:01,859
um they promoted their work and how that

1562
01:07:06,589 --> 01:07:03,539
work ends up

1563
01:07:09,410 --> 01:07:06,599
um kind of viewed and digested but

1564
01:07:11,630 --> 01:07:09,420
community at whole as a whole

1565
01:07:12,829 --> 01:07:11,640
the distinction between Keel and ballet

1566
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:12,839
reminds me of what we were talking about

1567
01:07:16,089 --> 01:07:14,400
before the show about

1568
01:07:19,069 --> 01:07:16,099
um

1569
01:07:20,510 --> 01:07:19,079
politicians there's some who uh repeat

1570
01:07:22,430 --> 01:07:20,520
the rhetoric and there's some who just

1571
01:07:24,589 --> 01:07:22,440
completely buy it and I think valet

1572
01:07:26,270 --> 01:07:24,599
completely buys it I think he's a really

1573
01:07:27,829 --> 01:07:26,280
credulous person but I think that

1574
01:07:29,569 --> 01:07:27,839
there's like a big distinction between

1575
01:07:31,970 --> 01:07:29,579
like um

1576
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:31,980
deductive things like he is a scientist

1577
01:07:35,210 --> 01:07:33,599
and a smart person just like people like

1578
01:07:37,130 --> 01:07:35,220
Dr Gary Nolan there's these deduct

1579
01:07:39,170 --> 01:07:37,140
deductive logic and then there's um

1580
01:07:40,490 --> 01:07:39,180
inductive and I think that's kind of the

1581
01:07:41,870 --> 01:07:40,500
distinction like these things that we're

1582
01:07:44,029 --> 01:07:41,880
talking about here aren't quantifiable

1583
01:07:46,029 --> 01:07:44,039
as much as we might try to make them

1584
01:07:49,130 --> 01:07:46,039
with EMF meters and things like that

1585
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:49,140
yeah solid facts and Science and stuff

1586
01:07:52,430 --> 01:07:51,119
which like there are clear answers to

1587
01:07:54,289 --> 01:07:52,440
and like

1588
01:07:57,289 --> 01:07:54,299
um quantifiable things and I think

1589
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:57,299
that's kind of how these um

1590
01:08:01,549 --> 01:08:00,000
you know academic types start believing

1591
01:08:04,370 --> 01:08:01,559
in strange

1592
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:04,380
kooky things like that

1593
01:08:09,529 --> 01:08:07,200
none of us are one of the things though

1594
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:09,539
about that talk too is I realize none of

1595
01:08:16,910 --> 01:08:13,200
us uh we're we're not doing science none

1596
01:08:17,930 --> 01:08:16,920
of us are qualified to do science

1597
01:08:20,209 --> 01:08:17,940
um

1598
01:08:23,209 --> 01:08:20,219
one of the things that

1599
01:08:26,030 --> 01:08:23,219
um nobody this is I did not write this I

1600
01:08:28,490 --> 01:08:26,040
dug this article up but I I was kind of

1601
01:08:31,309 --> 01:08:28,500
skeptical about the the legendary

1602
01:08:33,890 --> 01:08:31,319
Panasonic dr60

1603
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:33,900
okay Panasonic for people again I feel

1604
01:08:39,229 --> 01:08:37,199
like it's it's fun to to cross-pollinate

1605
01:08:42,289 --> 01:08:39,239
between different pockets of the weird

1606
01:08:45,470 --> 01:08:42,299
Panasonic dr60s the first digital voice

1607
01:08:48,650 --> 01:08:45,480
recorder ever released um I want to say

1608
01:08:52,370 --> 01:08:48,660
in the 80s early 90s uh was not a big

1609
01:08:54,189 --> 01:08:52,380
hit because people would um play and

1610
01:08:57,169 --> 01:08:54,199
hear other voices on it

1611
01:08:58,490 --> 01:08:57,179
and that turned into a thing it's

1612
01:09:00,349 --> 01:08:58,500
recording

1613
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:00,359
I had to do the hands like it's just

1614
01:09:07,729 --> 01:09:04,080
recording the spirits of the Dead

1615
01:09:10,189 --> 01:09:07,739
um and they go for like upwards of 3 500

1616
01:09:12,950 --> 01:09:10,199
bucks now incredible if you're a ghost

1617
01:09:16,150 --> 01:09:12,960
if you're a ghost investigator and you

1618
01:09:19,849 --> 01:09:16,160
want to do electronic voice phenomena

1619
01:09:21,410 --> 01:09:19,859
you that's like this that's the Grail

1620
01:09:24,050 --> 01:09:21,420
but

1621
01:09:27,289 --> 01:09:24,060
I was kind of like well I don't know

1622
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:27,299
because again I don't know I'm not

1623
01:09:30,110 --> 01:09:27,839
um

1624
01:09:31,910 --> 01:09:30,120
anything I you see if you see me post

1625
01:09:34,849 --> 01:09:31,920
Electronics you gotta remember I'm

1626
01:09:36,530 --> 01:09:34,859
self-taught I do not I do not take a

1627
01:09:38,510 --> 01:09:36,540
minor in electrical engineering or

1628
01:09:39,890 --> 01:09:38,520
anything right but once you start

1629
01:09:41,450 --> 01:09:39,900
playing with it yourself you kind of

1630
01:09:43,610 --> 01:09:41,460
realize some of these things there's an

1631
01:09:45,950 --> 01:09:43,620
article basically that the guy's like

1632
01:09:48,289 --> 01:09:45,960
yeah this is why the dr-60 why it does

1633
01:09:51,890 --> 01:09:48,299
that why that extra voice thing is in

1634
01:09:54,650 --> 01:09:51,900
there and it's really a function of the

1635
01:09:57,770 --> 01:09:54,660
limitations of the hardware down to the

1636
01:10:00,410 --> 01:09:57,780
level of like the memory in the thing

1637
01:10:02,570 --> 01:10:00,420
and like some of the components they had

1638
01:10:04,750 --> 01:10:02,580
and I would give you I would give you

1639
01:10:08,810 --> 01:10:04,760
like 50 bucks for one because it's cool

1640
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:08,820
but right it's just but people again it

1641
01:10:13,070 --> 01:10:11,040
is the it is the totem and it's like we

1642
01:10:15,410 --> 01:10:13,080
bring forth the totem and the totem

1643
01:10:18,070 --> 01:10:15,420
sanctifies the result

1644
01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:18,080
and

1645
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:20,400
all these all these gadgets are being

1646
01:10:24,350 --> 01:10:22,080
used outside of their intended purpose

1647
01:10:27,169 --> 01:10:24,360
or are like deliberately broken like a

1648
01:10:29,689 --> 01:10:27,179
Spirit box or something like that so

1649
01:10:32,030 --> 01:10:29,699
using them as a totem in a ritual serves

1650
01:10:33,470 --> 01:10:32,040
like a far greater purpose than any any

1651
01:10:35,330 --> 01:10:33,480
readings they're picking up on these

1652
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:35,340
things I would think

1653
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:37,440
one of the other things though too is

1654
01:10:41,510 --> 01:10:38,880
that I'm hoping

1655
01:10:43,729 --> 01:10:41,520
um you know the story of benzene that

1656
01:10:47,090 --> 01:10:43,739
the Benzene molecule came to him in a

1657
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:47,100
dream I don't know yeah I've opened one

1658
01:10:51,350 --> 01:10:48,960
of the one of the things if we start to

1659
01:10:53,689 --> 01:10:51,360
try to use inductive logic we will have

1660
01:10:58,070 --> 01:10:53,699
some breakthroughs like that we will

1661
01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:58,080
have some of those jumps forward as we

1662
01:11:04,189 --> 01:11:00,960
intend to create the synthesis

1663
01:11:05,810 --> 01:11:04,199
but because I just again like I feel

1664
01:11:08,270 --> 01:11:05,820
like you can have a meaningful personal

1665
01:11:10,669 --> 01:11:08,280
experience running around with your

1666
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:10,679
gadgets and I do I have a whole I have a

1667
01:11:14,450 --> 01:11:12,239
whole little case full of gadgets I'm

1668
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:14,460
like let's go let's go play with our

1669
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:18,239
toys but um I feel like I said that and

1670
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:19,920
somebody like it's a really serious

1671
01:11:23,270 --> 01:11:21,840
paranormal investigators can see this

1672
01:11:27,530 --> 01:11:23,280
and be like

1673
01:11:31,850 --> 01:11:27,540
and I'm sorry I love you I also have a

1674
01:11:33,770 --> 01:11:31,860
very cultivated a very like try to be

1675
01:11:35,209 --> 01:11:33,780
playful with this stuff

1676
01:11:38,630 --> 01:11:35,219
mm-hmm

1677
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:38,640
rather than take it um

1678
01:11:43,189 --> 01:11:41,280
if something I'm doing seriously but to

1679
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:43,199
some extent like I try to

1680
01:11:47,930 --> 01:11:46,320
couch it in playful language or a lot of

1681
01:11:49,970 --> 01:11:47,940
the uh I'm also a member of the little

1682
01:11:52,669 --> 01:11:49,980
Earth crew and a lot of the little

1683
01:11:55,010 --> 01:11:52,679
experiments it's not really an

1684
01:11:58,010 --> 01:11:55,020
experiment it's kind of like a

1685
01:12:00,950 --> 01:11:58,020
um more akin to like a discordian ritual

1686
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:00,960
or some kind of little fun thing we're

1687
01:12:06,050 --> 01:12:02,640
doing interact we're interacting with

1688
01:12:08,570 --> 01:12:06,060
you know what fought

1689
01:12:11,149 --> 01:12:08,580
that's awesome

1690
01:12:13,370 --> 01:12:11,159
uh can I touched on it again but can you

1691
01:12:15,050 --> 01:12:13,380
tell us a little more about uh your uh

1692
01:12:16,970 --> 01:12:15,060
your your it's like it's a video

1693
01:12:19,209 --> 01:12:16,980
conference right it's video conference

1694
01:12:22,010 --> 01:12:19,219
so we did it's pan pericon

1695
01:12:24,830 --> 01:12:22,020
panparacon.com we did it tears running

1696
01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:24,840
it's a video conference

1697
01:12:30,350 --> 01:12:28,080
um I think our two things were we had a

1698
01:12:32,209 --> 01:12:30,360
lot of people originally that um wanted

1699
01:12:35,149 --> 01:12:32,219
to go to Michigan pericon and couldn't

1700
01:12:37,970 --> 01:12:35,159
because of the pandemic and

1701
01:12:39,649 --> 01:12:37,980
um while I know a lot of the pandemic's

1702
01:12:41,290 --> 01:12:39,659
over for a lot of people it's still not

1703
01:12:44,689 --> 01:12:41,300
over for a lot of people that are

1704
01:12:45,830 --> 01:12:44,699
immunocompromised and so we we put it

1705
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:45,840
together and the original one went

1706
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:47,760
together in about a month

1707
01:12:52,729 --> 01:12:51,360
um well Vanessa valueco

1708
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:52,739
um and

1709
01:12:56,149 --> 01:12:53,840
um

1710
01:12:57,890 --> 01:12:56,159
Marissa who I don't know if Marissa

1711
01:12:59,930 --> 01:12:57,900
wants her last name out there so we'll

1712
01:13:02,270 --> 01:12:59,940
just leave it in me doing

1713
01:13:05,810 --> 01:13:02,280
um web and some back-end digital in our

1714
01:13:09,890 --> 01:13:05,820
graphics and stuff and we did uh

1715
01:13:13,850 --> 01:13:09,900
are also our thing frankly is not as

1716
01:13:15,709 --> 01:13:13,860
much emphasized of us it's like look

1717
01:13:19,790 --> 01:13:15,719
we're like like the bearded white guys

1718
01:13:22,430 --> 01:13:19,800
plus one so we're we're trying to open

1719
01:13:24,890 --> 01:13:22,440
it up to a lot of people that don't get

1720
01:13:28,130 --> 01:13:24,900
to speak we had a lot of people

1721
01:13:30,290 --> 01:13:28,140
um that haven't been on the con on the

1722
01:13:34,130 --> 01:13:30,300
conference circuit I'm trying to keep it

1723
01:13:36,890 --> 01:13:34,140
more more representation for

1724
01:13:39,649 --> 01:13:36,900
um queer people non-binary people a lot

1725
01:13:41,630 --> 01:13:39,659
of um and we had a lot of we have a lot

1726
01:13:45,290 --> 01:13:41,640
of different stuff we had

1727
01:13:50,270 --> 01:13:45,300
um everything ranging liminal Earth did

1728
01:13:52,070 --> 01:13:50,280
a uh liminal ecology seminar which is

1729
01:13:55,250 --> 01:13:52,080
really interesting

1730
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:55,260
um we had people talk about

1731
01:14:01,310 --> 01:13:58,560
um the phenomenon of Pop Culture we had

1732
01:14:05,209 --> 01:14:01,320
witches we had Rob on talking about UFOs

1733
01:14:07,550 --> 01:14:05,219
uh I did the tech the tech panel

1734
01:14:10,330 --> 01:14:07,560
um with Adler Cooper who's one of the

1735
01:14:14,330 --> 01:14:10,340
only hard scientists uh into the weird

1736
01:14:17,510 --> 01:14:14,340
that I'm aware of that you can actually

1737
01:14:20,090 --> 01:14:17,520
get to talk to and we did it again um we

1738
01:14:20,990 --> 01:14:20,100
did it again last year we had a lot of

1739
01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:21,000
um

1740
01:14:25,790 --> 01:14:23,520
a lot of witches we had a diversity

1741
01:14:27,950 --> 01:14:25,800
panel we had some really good stuff and

1742
01:14:29,570 --> 01:14:27,960
I don't know what we're doing here as

1743
01:14:31,070 --> 01:14:29,580
far as guests because once you realize

1744
01:14:33,770 --> 01:14:31,080
you could

1745
01:14:35,209 --> 01:14:33,780
um Vanessa is doing her podcast and a

1746
01:14:37,250 --> 01:14:35,219
lot of our guests are dropped my pocket

1747
01:14:39,770 --> 01:14:37,260
so she's working her butt off all the

1748
01:14:41,030 --> 01:14:39,780
time on it but once you realize like you

1749
01:14:42,890 --> 01:14:41,040
can update the website and create

1750
01:14:45,229 --> 01:14:42,900
schedules and stuff in about a month

1751
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:45,239
like we tried to start working on it a

1752
01:14:51,050 --> 01:14:46,800
lot last year but you sort of know it's

1753
01:14:55,550 --> 01:14:53,870
but there will be a third I hope so I'm

1754
01:14:56,810 --> 01:14:55,560
gonna find out we have all had

1755
01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:56,820
personally

1756
01:15:00,890 --> 01:14:58,800
um a lot of personal hardship last year

1757
01:15:03,590 --> 01:15:00,900
and I think we're all kind of recovering

1758
01:15:05,930 --> 01:15:03,600
from that but

1759
01:15:07,310 --> 01:15:05,940
we we're talking about bringing it back

1760
01:15:09,169 --> 01:15:07,320
we're talking keeping it streaming

1761
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:09,179
keeping it free we try to pay people out

1762
01:15:14,270 --> 01:15:12,239
of the tip jar so I'm a hundred percent

1763
01:15:17,030 --> 01:15:14,280
doing that like

1764
01:15:19,729 --> 01:15:17,040
things are coming out you know tip your

1765
01:15:23,810 --> 01:15:21,770
um that whole thing and try to get

1766
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:23,820
people to Hawk books I think for some

1767
01:15:28,669 --> 01:15:26,880
people that are more invested in this is

1768
01:15:30,770 --> 01:15:28,679
their primary source income it's

1769
01:15:33,590 --> 01:15:30,780
important to go table somewhere and have

1770
01:15:34,669 --> 01:15:33,600
books which unfortunately we can't do

1771
01:15:36,770 --> 01:15:34,679
um I'm gonna try to have some

1772
01:15:39,050 --> 01:15:36,780
entertainment this year I don't know or

1773
01:15:41,149 --> 01:15:39,060
a lot of ideas flying around

1774
01:15:42,649 --> 01:15:41,159
but

1775
01:15:44,630 --> 01:15:42,659
um

1776
01:15:46,430 --> 01:15:44,640
there are a lot of interesting people

1777
01:15:48,890 --> 01:15:46,440
with interesting things to talk about

1778
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:48,900
out there

1779
01:15:53,990 --> 01:15:52,080
and when you're not trying to like pack

1780
01:15:56,750 --> 01:15:54,000
a convention hall you don't have to

1781
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:56,760
worry about like gotta have my anchor

1782
01:16:02,209 --> 01:16:00,239
speaker like the big God

1783
01:16:05,270 --> 01:16:02,219
although we might have a big gun someday

1784
01:16:08,090 --> 01:16:05,280
I don't know it's entirely possible

1785
01:16:10,130 --> 01:16:08,100
but I I really like being able to do it

1786
01:16:13,070 --> 01:16:10,140
kind of it's it's almost it's like this

1787
01:16:15,290 --> 01:16:13,080
but for days I just I really

1788
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:15,300
I really need to get a better seat

1789
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:17,280
cushion that's like the number one

1790
01:16:23,149 --> 01:16:21,120
number one expense uh the by the end of

1791
01:16:24,850 --> 01:16:23,159
it like on Sunday I will be lying on the

1792
01:16:27,770 --> 01:16:24,860
floor just kind of

1793
01:16:30,229 --> 01:16:27,780
clamber back up when it's time to make a

1794
01:16:33,250 --> 01:16:30,239
transition oh man yeah like these two

1795
01:16:35,870 --> 01:16:33,260
hour shows kill me so I don't know

1796
01:16:38,030 --> 01:16:35,880
I never bothered they never bothered me

1797
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:38,040
but now I'm in this Airbnb in this on

1798
01:16:43,010 --> 01:16:39,840
this awful office chair with a

1799
01:16:45,410 --> 01:16:43,020
non-adjustable desk and I'm dying yeah

1800
01:16:49,070 --> 01:16:45,420
oh that was a whole like that's a whole

1801
01:16:51,290 --> 01:16:49,080
digression like lack of when I when I I

1802
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:51,300
transition to work from home the

1803
01:16:55,910 --> 01:16:53,760
ergonomics set up at home and I didn't

1804
01:16:57,709 --> 01:16:55,920
use that much like ruined my life I'm

1805
01:17:02,090 --> 01:16:57,719
just like was like this crippled shell

1806
01:17:05,450 --> 01:17:02,100
of myself until I got desk and chair and

1807
01:17:08,450 --> 01:17:05,460
everything a little more dialed in

1808
01:17:10,370 --> 01:17:08,460
I'm the opposite once I went uh remote I

1809
01:17:12,110 --> 01:17:10,380
I started off with a big setup and now

1810
01:17:14,689 --> 01:17:12,120
I'm just down to the laptop in a mobile

1811
01:17:16,070 --> 01:17:14,699
or on the apartment all the time now

1812
01:17:18,290 --> 01:17:16,080
let me know

1813
01:17:21,950 --> 01:17:18,300
wow

1814
01:17:25,610 --> 01:17:21,960
Jay I'm wondering um have you ever had a

1815
01:17:28,250 --> 01:17:25,620
like Paranormal experience uh of any uh

1816
01:17:30,229 --> 01:17:28,260
you know intensity and um I'm wondering

1817
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:30,239
what triggered your original interest in

1818
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:31,920
the subject if it was an experience or

1819
01:17:37,610 --> 01:17:34,560
if somebody influential in your life uh

1820
01:17:39,470 --> 01:17:37,620
motivated you to uh look into it more

1821
01:17:41,149 --> 01:17:39,480
um I have had them but they've been

1822
01:17:43,729 --> 01:17:41,159
pretty low intensity and I can tell you

1823
01:17:45,709 --> 01:17:43,739
about them if you if you want I want to

1824
01:17:48,290 --> 01:17:45,719
I I you know what I will actually say

1825
01:17:49,910 --> 01:17:48,300
that one that was definitely medium-high

1826
01:17:52,370 --> 01:17:49,920
intensity

1827
01:17:54,490 --> 01:17:52,380
um but actually the interest was

1828
01:17:59,390 --> 01:17:57,709
my folks left they had a just on the

1829
01:18:02,270 --> 01:17:59,400
coffee table when you throw some books

1830
01:18:03,709 --> 01:18:02,280
on the coffee table there was the um

1831
01:18:06,050 --> 01:18:03,719
there's a book on the Loch Ness monster

1832
01:18:08,689 --> 01:18:06,060
that I still have even though the Loch

1833
01:18:13,850 --> 01:18:08,699
Ness Monster is pretty much done

1834
01:18:17,870 --> 01:18:13,860
um and uh he's toast a classic of the

1835
01:18:20,330 --> 01:18:17,880
genre Don berwitz Bermuda Triangle book

1836
01:18:23,689 --> 01:18:20,340
yeah which again

1837
01:18:26,450 --> 01:18:23,699
um I know again mostly we're mostly done

1838
01:18:29,570 --> 01:18:26,460
with that although I secretly hope for a

1839
01:18:31,130 --> 01:18:29,580
Bermuda Triangle come back every year

1840
01:18:35,209 --> 01:18:31,140
but

1841
01:18:37,610 --> 01:18:35,219
um that'd be awesome I've had a few and

1842
01:18:40,370 --> 01:18:37,620
they've been pretty low-key

1843
01:18:44,090 --> 01:18:40,380
except for the one I had

1844
01:18:46,910 --> 01:18:44,100
um and this is where again it feels like

1845
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:46,920
dream logic and it's very hard to

1846
01:18:51,890 --> 01:18:49,440
interpret in terms of normal terms

1847
01:18:54,110 --> 01:18:51,900
um I had a legit glitch in The Matrix

1848
01:18:56,450 --> 01:18:54,120
once

1849
01:18:59,750 --> 01:18:56,460
go on you used to go

1850
01:19:02,270 --> 01:18:59,760
um my old job uh our advertising agency

1851
01:19:05,930 --> 01:19:02,280
was in an office build just like in an

1852
01:19:08,090 --> 01:19:05,940
office building an office Park and

1853
01:19:10,850 --> 01:19:08,100
I used to go walk laps around the

1854
01:19:13,310 --> 01:19:10,860
building when I would need to think and

1855
01:19:15,950 --> 01:19:13,320
this is very simple just walking around

1856
01:19:18,470 --> 01:19:15,960
front of the building woman of silver

1857
01:19:20,630 --> 01:19:18,480
Mercedes pulls in parks in front of the

1858
01:19:22,070 --> 01:19:20,640
building and I'm like oh she's parking

1859
01:19:24,830 --> 01:19:22,080
right in front of us she must have a

1860
01:19:28,430 --> 01:19:24,840
client meeting with somebody

1861
01:19:29,209 --> 01:19:28,440
totally a normal normal thing to happen

1862
01:19:31,070 --> 01:19:29,219
um

1863
01:19:32,990 --> 01:19:31,080
walk around the building the whole way

1864
01:19:35,090 --> 01:19:33,000
around get right back to where I was

1865
01:19:36,649 --> 01:19:35,100
same woman in the same car pulls in in

1866
01:19:38,030 --> 01:19:36,659
the same spot gets out and goes in the

1867
01:19:40,729 --> 01:19:38,040
building

1868
01:19:43,790 --> 01:19:40,739
but

1869
01:19:46,729 --> 01:19:43,800
again like that was it and since like

1870
01:19:49,130 --> 01:19:46,739
reality is not degrading you know or

1871
01:19:52,250 --> 01:19:49,140
like the door doesn't open up and it's

1872
01:19:53,330 --> 01:19:52,260
like calm you just kind of you do like

1873
01:19:56,450 --> 01:19:53,340
you like the John you're like the John

1874
01:19:59,750 --> 01:19:56,460
Travolta in Pulp Fiction just kind of

1875
01:20:03,110 --> 01:19:59,760
like like well is that it do I you know

1876
01:20:05,330 --> 01:20:03,120
I'm like I did one more lap and it

1877
01:20:08,630 --> 01:20:05,340
didn't happen that time so I'm like well

1878
01:20:10,689 --> 01:20:08,640
clearly like it's not like I'm having a

1879
01:20:14,149 --> 01:20:10,699
real micro Groundhog Day or something

1880
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:14,159
but what was what was like your

1881
01:20:20,090 --> 01:20:17,040
emotional and somatic or bodily response

1882
01:20:23,689 --> 01:20:20,100
when you experience this I was totally

1883
01:20:24,350 --> 01:20:23,699
calm about that but I have I will tell

1884
01:20:25,610 --> 01:20:24,360
you

1885
01:20:27,709 --> 01:20:25,620
um

1886
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:27,719
it's been a long time and I put a lot of

1887
01:20:33,290 --> 01:20:31,440
biography I used to be a pilot not

1888
01:20:35,450 --> 01:20:33,300
professionally but I I got my private

1889
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:35,460
pilot's license and I used to fly and I

1890
01:20:38,689 --> 01:20:36,719
gave it up

1891
01:20:43,490 --> 01:20:38,699
because it's basically the world's most

1892
01:20:46,010 --> 01:20:44,270
um

1893
01:20:48,290 --> 01:20:46,020
you pay a lot of money around the plane

1894
01:20:52,250 --> 01:20:48,300
fly it somewhere get out at this other

1895
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:52,260
airport get a bag of chips get a um a

1896
01:20:56,030 --> 01:20:53,760
soda or something then fly it back

1897
01:20:58,250 --> 01:20:56,040
somebody's waiting for it to go fly it

1898
01:21:00,290 --> 01:20:58,260
around after you

1899
01:21:03,709 --> 01:21:00,300
um

1900
01:21:05,870 --> 01:21:03,719
but part of that whole process of

1901
01:21:07,910 --> 01:21:05,880
training that sort of like

1902
01:21:10,490 --> 01:21:07,920
I feel like he's sort of permanently

1903
01:21:12,590 --> 01:21:10,500
dampens your somatic response to a lot

1904
01:21:16,790 --> 01:21:12,600
of things because you're doing it on

1905
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:16,800
purpose so when something we have an um

1906
01:21:22,610 --> 01:21:19,679
an emergency incident in the air you may

1907
01:21:24,050 --> 01:21:22,620
you are calm and you

1908
01:21:26,570 --> 01:21:24,060
um

1909
01:21:29,050 --> 01:21:26,580
can execute your CR like whatever the

1910
01:21:31,550 --> 01:21:29,060
correct procedure is to not die

1911
01:21:34,010 --> 01:21:31,560
given given whatever the event is that

1912
01:21:35,930 --> 01:21:34,020
unfold me and somehow even though I did

1913
01:21:37,070 --> 01:21:35,940
that in my teenage years that seems to

1914
01:21:41,950 --> 01:21:37,080
have Frozen

1915
01:21:44,810 --> 01:21:41,960
as as part of me I was definitely

1916
01:21:46,669 --> 01:21:44,820
bewildered but unlike some of these

1917
01:21:48,169 --> 01:21:46,679
other incidents they're

1918
01:21:51,649 --> 01:21:48,179
um

1919
01:21:54,649 --> 01:21:51,659
it seems so mundane I wasn't really like

1920
01:21:57,530 --> 01:21:54,659
able to decode any kind of sign out of

1921
01:22:00,350 --> 01:21:57,540
like a middle-aged woman in a silver

1922
01:22:03,530 --> 01:22:00,360
Mercedes like that just seemed like very

1923
01:22:05,390 --> 01:22:03,540
now that seemed like natural for that's

1924
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:05,400
like that's naturally occurring for this

1925
01:22:10,850 --> 01:22:07,440
area

1926
01:22:12,410 --> 01:22:10,860
okay like that she looks like she's here

1927
01:22:15,050 --> 01:22:12,420
to do some business with somebody and

1928
01:22:16,669 --> 01:22:15,060
we're in an office Park and you know in

1929
01:22:18,770 --> 01:22:16,679
an office building an office Park and

1930
01:22:20,030 --> 01:22:18,780
this is where

1931
01:22:23,030 --> 01:22:20,040
um

1932
01:22:25,130 --> 01:22:23,040
so it wasn't like I ran into her

1933
01:22:26,630 --> 01:22:25,140
um in the wilderness which would have

1934
01:22:29,810 --> 01:22:26,640
been extremely

1935
01:22:35,330 --> 01:22:32,810
so I just I don't know it was very just

1936
01:22:37,010 --> 01:22:35,340
like I don't know what that was and

1937
01:22:41,149 --> 01:22:37,020
mm-hmm

1938
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:41,159
I did have one um and this was like

1939
01:22:45,350 --> 01:22:43,199
I will not say it's traumatic because of

1940
01:22:46,970 --> 01:22:45,360
the speed at which I recovered but I

1941
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:46,980
lived in a um

1942
01:22:51,410 --> 01:22:48,840
lived in an off-campus house when I was

1943
01:22:52,729 --> 01:22:51,420
doing my first degree and it was it was

1944
01:22:55,189 --> 01:22:52,739
owned by the school but it was actually

1945
01:22:56,870 --> 01:22:55,199
off the campus it was a very old one of

1946
01:23:01,610 --> 01:22:56,880
those very old millionaires row houses

1947
01:23:03,410 --> 01:23:01,620
that they partitioned into dorm rooms

1948
01:23:03,950 --> 01:23:03,420
and

1949
01:23:08,270 --> 01:23:03,960
um

1950
01:23:11,050 --> 01:23:08,280
of course uh the lore from you know

1951
01:23:14,810 --> 01:23:11,060
older students as the house is haunted

1952
01:23:16,970 --> 01:23:14,820
and I don't know at that point in my

1953
01:23:18,229 --> 01:23:16,980
life I really

1954
01:23:20,149 --> 01:23:18,239
um

1955
01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:20,159
really believed in this stuff to the

1956
01:23:23,209 --> 01:23:21,840
point where I even I mean at that it was

1957
01:23:25,010 --> 01:23:23,219
everything though and I mean I even

1958
01:23:26,930 --> 01:23:25,020
remember trying to write a paper I was

1959
01:23:29,149 --> 01:23:26,940
going to write a freshman in college

1960
01:23:32,750 --> 01:23:29,159
could write a research paper that proves

1961
01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:32,760
the Ebe hypothesis that did not go well

1962
01:23:39,290 --> 01:23:36,719
I see on that one but um

1963
01:23:41,330 --> 01:23:39,300
one night

1964
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:41,340
we were hanging out at the house we were

1965
01:23:45,649 --> 01:23:43,440
having a few beers and somebody was like

1966
01:23:47,149 --> 01:23:45,659
let's go up in the attic and have a

1967
01:23:49,850 --> 01:23:47,159
seance and I'm like

1968
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:49,860
a few beers uh and I'm like I'm always I

1969
01:23:56,450 --> 01:23:52,560
mean I've game for Seance today but

1970
01:23:58,669 --> 01:23:56,460
um we went on 30 right we went up we had

1971
01:24:00,890 --> 01:23:58,679
we the door the attic was locked we got

1972
01:24:02,030 --> 01:24:00,900
it open it was an old door we were able

1973
01:24:05,149 --> 01:24:02,040
to get in there and we're kind of

1974
01:24:06,890 --> 01:24:05,159
sitting up there and the one guy is

1975
01:24:08,330 --> 01:24:06,900
trying to kind of conduct this we're not

1976
01:24:11,630 --> 01:24:08,340
holding hands we're all just sitting and

1977
01:24:14,810 --> 01:24:11,640
he's just like be very relaxed and and

1978
01:24:16,970 --> 01:24:14,820
very open and

1979
01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:16,980
I'm sitting there trying to be relaxed

1980
01:24:22,149 --> 01:24:19,440
and open and all of a sudden I start

1981
01:24:28,010 --> 01:24:22,159
crying uncontrollably

1982
01:24:29,570 --> 01:24:28,020
just uncontrollable sadness and tears

1983
01:24:32,570 --> 01:24:29,580
um

1984
01:24:36,229 --> 01:24:32,580
the guy who's conducting the Seance

1985
01:24:38,510 --> 01:24:36,239
um known amongst all of us is just like

1986
01:24:41,209 --> 01:24:38,520
the most calm unperturbable person

1987
01:24:44,090 --> 01:24:41,219
starts screaming at me to stop

1988
01:24:45,530 --> 01:24:44,100
like you shut up and this whole thing

1989
01:24:47,330 --> 01:24:45,540
and

1990
01:24:49,189 --> 01:24:47,340
my two pounds

1991
01:24:51,830 --> 01:24:49,199
this is better than the Mercedes story

1992
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:51,840
this is oh yeah that's yeah yeah

1993
01:25:01,070 --> 01:24:58,910
drag me just kind of had to pick me up

1994
01:25:02,630 --> 01:25:01,080
help me downstairs you know how it'd be

1995
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:02,640
like if somebody was like you know like

1996
01:25:08,390 --> 01:25:05,280
somebody can't stand at a funeral of a

1997
01:25:10,189 --> 01:25:08,400
really close person and but we got

1998
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:10,199
downstairs they dragged him out and it

1999
01:25:14,330 --> 01:25:11,520
just

2000
01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:14,340
it was gone from us

2001
01:25:19,790 --> 01:25:17,820
remember that emotion was was no longer

2002
01:25:22,810 --> 01:25:19,800
feeling it

2003
01:25:27,770 --> 01:25:25,669
basically all we came up with was like

2004
01:25:29,090 --> 01:25:27,780
don't poke the bear like let's not do

2005
01:25:33,350 --> 01:25:29,100
that [\h__\h] again

2006
01:25:35,390 --> 01:25:33,360
feels like ce5 to me in a way yeah it

2007
01:25:38,630 --> 01:25:35,400
feels like it's speaking to

2008
01:25:40,430 --> 01:25:38,640
and I mean I hate to say this because uh

2009
01:25:42,169 --> 01:25:40,440
the only frame of reference we had was

2010
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:42,179
like Ghostbusters so we're like past

2011
01:25:47,390 --> 01:25:44,400
life extruding on a present memory or

2012
01:25:50,330 --> 01:25:47,400
did we emotionally feel some event that

2013
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:50,340
has happened in the house that we were

2014
01:25:56,330 --> 01:25:54,000
because we're really in a state of being

2015
01:25:59,149 --> 01:25:56,340
susceptible because of like you know

2016
01:26:02,149 --> 01:25:59,159
like two three beers you're not

2017
01:26:04,490 --> 01:26:02,159
Blotto but you're just kind of like and

2018
01:26:07,790 --> 01:26:04,500
then trying to clear your mind and we

2019
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:07,800
just got and it just

2020
01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:08,639
um

2021
01:26:11,870 --> 01:26:10,320
I never had another

2022
01:26:14,530 --> 01:26:11,880
um weird experience in that house I

2023
01:26:17,510 --> 01:26:14,540
lived in that house for two years

2024
01:26:21,070 --> 01:26:17,520
but it was also like we're not going to

2025
01:26:24,290 --> 01:26:21,080
go have any more seances in the Attic

2026
01:26:26,149 --> 01:26:24,300
I did try to Tunnel through one of the

2027
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:26,159
walls in the basement but that was for

2028
01:26:30,110 --> 01:26:27,120
different reasons

2029
01:26:31,850 --> 01:26:30,120
[Laughter]

2030
01:26:33,770 --> 01:26:31,860
that sounds exciting

2031
01:26:35,390 --> 01:26:33,780
the house was supposedly part of the

2032
01:26:38,149 --> 01:26:35,400
Underground Railroad but in this case

2033
01:26:40,010 --> 01:26:38,159
literally linked to a couple houses on

2034
01:26:43,790 --> 01:26:40,020
the street like right next to each other

2035
01:26:46,010 --> 01:26:43,800
so we were um we were uh

2036
01:26:47,689 --> 01:26:46,020
going around in the basement sounding on

2037
01:26:50,750 --> 01:26:47,699
the walls with hammers and found a

2038
01:26:52,129 --> 01:26:50,760
hollow wall and drove a piece of rebar

2039
01:26:53,209 --> 01:26:52,139
through it

2040
01:26:56,590 --> 01:26:53,219
cool

2041
01:26:59,570 --> 01:26:56,600
but we were like let's get some pickaxes

2042
01:27:02,090 --> 01:26:59,580
and then somebody's like does anybody

2043
01:27:04,250 --> 01:27:02,100
anybody in engineering major anybody

2044
01:27:05,689 --> 01:27:04,260
know if this is like this can't be load

2045
01:27:08,169 --> 01:27:05,699
bearing because it's Hollow right I'm

2046
01:27:10,430 --> 01:27:08,179
like yeah but it's like 150 years old

2047
01:27:13,669 --> 01:27:10,440
right you're like all his art history

2048
01:27:17,270 --> 01:27:13,679
major is like screaming yeah yeah I'm

2049
01:27:19,850 --> 01:27:17,280
like exactly it's like I am a studio art

2050
01:27:22,070 --> 01:27:19,860
major and a history minor I don't know

2051
01:27:25,790 --> 01:27:22,080
if this like taking down this wall is

2052
01:27:27,770 --> 01:27:25,800
gonna be like real bad in the explaining

2053
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:27,780
to like the dean why the house is

2054
01:27:32,209 --> 01:27:29,280
partially

2055
01:27:34,129 --> 01:27:32,219
caved in but yeah that was my like that

2056
01:27:35,689 --> 01:27:34,139
was my major one

2057
01:27:40,910 --> 01:27:35,699
and

2058
01:27:44,030 --> 01:27:40,920
other than that that's kind of uh

2059
01:27:45,350 --> 01:27:44,040
I've never had a sighting of anything

2060
01:27:50,450 --> 01:27:45,360
no

2061
01:27:53,030 --> 01:27:50,460
because that's my primary is my field of

2062
01:27:56,270 --> 01:27:53,040
study you might feel the practice my

2063
01:27:59,450 --> 01:27:56,280
field that I'm I'm working on either

2064
01:28:01,250 --> 01:27:59,460
researching and hypotheses now but no I

2065
01:28:03,470 --> 01:28:01,260
haven't seen anything yet

2066
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:03,480
yet

2067
01:28:06,709 --> 01:28:05,280
yeah same I think we just want it too

2068
01:28:11,570 --> 01:28:06,719
bad

2069
01:28:14,510 --> 01:28:11,580
kid oh yeah absolutely not like

2070
01:28:18,470 --> 01:28:16,010
that's

2071
01:28:19,610 --> 01:28:18,480
um I also think though to some extent

2072
01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:19,620
like

2073
01:28:23,510 --> 01:28:22,260
um I don't know I was reading reading

2074
01:28:24,850 --> 01:28:23,520
started reading tricks during the

2075
01:28:27,229 --> 01:28:24,860
Paranormal

2076
01:28:29,450 --> 01:28:27,239
first about the first section through

2077
01:28:32,870 --> 01:28:29,460
that and they're talking about like

2078
01:28:37,610 --> 01:28:32,880
sensitivity of people and kind of the um

2079
01:28:40,669 --> 01:28:37,620
people that embody the Mercury archetype

2080
01:28:42,709 --> 01:28:40,679
to to Vera to higher degrees as defined

2081
01:28:44,810 --> 01:28:42,719
like he defines it in this book there's

2082
01:28:46,970 --> 01:28:44,820
a checklist or finding out if you're a

2083
01:28:48,649 --> 01:28:46,980
Mercury person or not are the people

2084
01:28:50,990 --> 01:28:48,659
that's running

2085
01:28:53,689 --> 01:28:51,000
into that and I'm like I don't know

2086
01:28:55,250 --> 01:28:53,699
maybe I'm more of a fastest guy and I'm

2087
01:28:58,610 --> 01:28:55,260
not getting that I don't I don't know

2088
01:29:03,770 --> 01:29:01,850
dolly in those guys the surrealists

2089
01:29:06,290 --> 01:29:03,780
Mercury people

2090
01:29:11,330 --> 01:29:08,870
lots of trickster properties sorry Leah

2091
01:29:13,610 --> 01:29:11,340
yeah so um

2092
01:29:15,290 --> 01:29:13,620
earlier in the coming conversation about

2093
01:29:18,050 --> 01:29:15,300
basically being

2094
01:29:20,090 --> 01:29:18,060
a True Believer right like believing the

2095
01:29:22,430 --> 01:29:20,100
Paranormal believing

2096
01:29:24,830 --> 01:29:22,440
um everything around these subjects

2097
01:29:26,390 --> 01:29:24,840
ufology Etc I was wondering if you could

2098
01:29:28,850 --> 01:29:26,400
talk a little bit about just your own

2099
01:29:30,890 --> 01:29:28,860
experience in this cycle of belief and

2100
01:29:33,169 --> 01:29:30,900
how your views on this subject have

2101
01:29:35,270 --> 01:29:33,179
changed and evolved over time

2102
01:29:37,970 --> 01:29:35,280
I think

2103
01:29:40,850 --> 01:29:37,980
um from

2104
01:29:42,410 --> 01:29:40,860
being a kid and reading you know reading

2105
01:29:43,850 --> 01:29:42,420
your berlitz Bermuda Triangle stuff

2106
01:29:46,430 --> 01:29:43,860
being really afraid of the Bermuda

2107
01:29:50,090 --> 01:29:46,440
Triangle believing in ghosts reading a

2108
01:29:53,030 --> 01:29:50,100
lot of books on ghosts probably being

2109
01:29:56,149 --> 01:29:53,040
too young to read communion and to read

2110
01:29:58,550 --> 01:29:56,159
Mac and when the X-Files was happening

2111
01:30:02,810 --> 01:29:58,560
really being like

2112
01:30:06,770 --> 01:30:05,149
um being abducted by aliens when I was

2113
01:30:11,149 --> 01:30:06,780
like teenager

2114
01:30:13,669 --> 01:30:11,159
um I I think uh I

2115
01:30:15,470 --> 01:30:13,679
I will say this this is like a dig on

2116
01:30:17,209 --> 01:30:15,480
disclosure a little bit but like we're

2117
01:30:19,610 --> 01:30:17,219
gonna people don't remember we were

2118
01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:19,620
gonna have disclosure in the late 90s

2119
01:30:24,430 --> 01:30:22,800
like all of that stuff that was they

2120
01:30:26,689 --> 01:30:24,440
were prepping us

2121
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:26,699
psychologically to accept the reality

2122
01:30:32,450 --> 01:30:29,040
they were about to unveil and that

2123
01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:32,460
didn't happen and I think

2124
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:33,120
um

2125
01:30:39,649 --> 01:30:35,760
I think I lost interest

2126
01:30:42,530 --> 01:30:39,659
for a chunk of it in that and there's

2127
01:30:44,990 --> 01:30:42,540
part of me that

2128
01:30:51,830 --> 01:30:48,709
I don't think it's going to ever matter

2129
01:30:53,629 --> 01:30:51,840
um cosmically to a species like like us

2130
01:30:55,910 --> 01:30:53,639
saying that but I think it does matter

2131
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:55,920
for

2132
01:30:58,729 --> 01:30:57,600
Plumbing those Mysteries

2133
01:31:00,950 --> 01:30:58,739
[Music]

2134
01:31:04,189 --> 01:31:00,960
um I think for a lot of people I think

2135
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:04,199
what changed over the years is there are

2136
01:31:08,450 --> 01:31:05,940
a lot of people that

2137
01:31:09,709 --> 01:31:08,460
um are like I said telling stories that

2138
01:31:13,430 --> 01:31:09,719
don't conform to kind of the

2139
01:31:15,410 --> 01:31:13,440
stereotypical groups of things uh making

2140
01:31:18,590 --> 01:31:15,420
the question what the driving force is

2141
01:31:20,689 --> 01:31:18,600
I'm I'm a little I'm not sure about the

2142
01:31:23,090 --> 01:31:20,699
um I feel like everything now people

2143
01:31:24,290 --> 01:31:23,100
talk about the phenomena but it makes us

2144
01:31:27,169 --> 01:31:24,300
feel like

2145
01:31:30,229 --> 01:31:27,179
um it's like a jar of peanut butter

2146
01:31:32,470 --> 01:31:30,239
and I'm not sure if I feel like it's

2147
01:31:34,930 --> 01:31:32,480
more of a mature peanut butter or

2148
01:31:41,209 --> 01:31:34,940
undiscovered ecosystem

2149
01:31:44,270 --> 01:31:41,219
I am not I haven't like I I kind of have

2150
01:31:46,129 --> 01:31:44,280
now I'm more open to the possibilities

2151
01:31:49,570 --> 01:31:46,139
of

2152
01:31:52,790 --> 01:31:49,580
different hypotheses different

2153
01:31:56,750 --> 01:31:52,800
different ideas on what's Happening than

2154
01:31:59,510 --> 01:31:56,760
I am I'm not committed to one like chunk

2155
01:32:03,169 --> 01:31:59,520
of hypotheses I do

2156
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:03,179
um say to people a lot that I kind of

2157
01:32:09,770 --> 01:32:06,960
believe though in the um

2158
01:32:12,050 --> 01:32:09,780
for you to take every type of encounter

2159
01:32:13,490 --> 01:32:12,060
and put it on a pie chart I would say

2160
01:32:16,370 --> 01:32:13,500
yes

2161
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,380
like hasn't can I I'm not going to tell

2162
01:32:21,229 --> 01:32:18,480
you an extraterrestrial biological

2163
01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:21,239
entity has never visited this planet and

2164
01:32:26,149 --> 01:32:23,760
like grabbed a potato in somebody's dog

2165
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:26,159
it could have happened

2166
01:32:30,770 --> 01:32:29,760
um I know on a lot of a lot of

2167
01:32:33,290 --> 01:32:30,780
um

2168
01:32:36,709 --> 01:32:33,300
ghost people right now are like they're

2169
01:32:39,110 --> 01:32:36,719
not spirits of the Dead they're some

2170
01:32:42,410 --> 01:32:39,120
kind of like time-based telegraphy or

2171
01:32:44,090 --> 01:32:42,420
something or everybody it's like I feel

2172
01:32:45,770 --> 01:32:44,100
though like part of this too though it's

2173
01:32:48,590 --> 01:32:45,780
like everybody's learning everybody

2174
01:32:50,290 --> 01:32:48,600
won't learn the word liminal and now

2175
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:50,300
it's like

2176
01:32:57,830 --> 01:32:54,239
it reminds me yeah it reminds me of

2177
01:33:00,890 --> 01:32:57,840
um and like when an adjective reaches

2178
01:33:03,590 --> 01:33:00,900
super saturation in advertising land and

2179
01:33:06,050 --> 01:33:03,600
you hit something where like people like

2180
01:33:08,510 --> 01:33:06,060
when the when the iMac was new remember

2181
01:33:09,910 --> 01:33:08,520
the bubble gum IMAX and then they were

2182
01:33:12,590 --> 01:33:09,920
just I

2183
01:33:14,750 --> 01:33:12,600
prefixes on everything for the purpose

2184
01:33:19,010 --> 01:33:14,760
of marketing or

2185
01:33:21,169 --> 01:33:19,020
um HD like HD sunglasses and I'm like

2186
01:33:25,090 --> 01:33:21,179
well unless you have like a different

2187
01:33:27,350 --> 01:33:25,100
eye structure or HD for example this is

2188
01:33:29,810 --> 01:33:27,360
this is it

2189
01:33:31,669 --> 01:33:29,820
um I do feel things get that way a

2190
01:33:33,290 --> 01:33:31,679
little bit like I feel like everything

2191
01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:33,300
is

2192
01:33:37,010 --> 01:33:33,840
um

2193
01:33:41,390 --> 01:33:37,020
it's like lots of talk about tulpas and

2194
01:33:43,490 --> 01:33:41,400
agricors uh which I like yes but not

2195
01:33:45,310 --> 01:33:43,500
everything not a not Everything is

2196
01:33:48,649 --> 01:33:45,320
Everything

2197
01:33:52,010 --> 01:33:48,659
not sure this is just gut level I feel

2198
01:33:54,950 --> 01:33:52,020
like that was my one got pause with

2199
01:33:57,169 --> 01:33:54,960
meeting the Absurd where it's like it's

2200
01:33:59,390 --> 01:33:57,179
it's this it's it's still peanut butter

2201
01:34:01,490 --> 01:33:59,400
a little bit but that's just

2202
01:34:02,870 --> 01:34:01,500
everything's the same thing it might be

2203
01:34:04,610 --> 01:34:02,880
peanut butter I'm just not ready to

2204
01:34:07,430 --> 01:34:04,620
accept peanut butter yet

2205
01:34:09,590 --> 01:34:07,440
um right yeah it also feels like it

2206
01:34:11,930 --> 01:34:09,600
falls kind of pretty the same issues as

2207
01:34:14,990 --> 01:34:11,940
like a perennialist view where yeah

2208
01:34:17,930 --> 01:34:15,000
basically glosses over any of the rich

2209
01:34:20,450 --> 01:34:17,940
or complex elements

2210
01:34:22,790 --> 01:34:20,460
of the the mental model in order to make

2211
01:34:25,070 --> 01:34:22,800
them all the same things it does and it

2212
01:34:27,709 --> 01:34:25,080
also um I think for his for cat strap

2213
01:34:29,090 --> 01:34:27,719
I'm like what if we're all what if we're

2214
01:34:36,229 --> 01:34:29,100
the

2215
01:34:37,370 --> 01:34:36,239
Colony under Michigan and we just don't

2216
01:34:40,430 --> 01:34:37,380
know it

2217
01:34:43,129 --> 01:34:40,440
um that would be cool I think I think

2218
01:34:46,250 --> 01:34:43,139
though my my at the same time I don't

2219
01:34:49,310 --> 01:34:46,260
want to dismiss I I'm not dismissive and

2220
01:34:50,990 --> 01:34:49,320
this is I know everybody knows like the

2221
01:34:53,810 --> 01:34:51,000
the sample from The Haunting from Rob

2222
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,820
Zombie supercharger Heaven look I know

2223
01:34:57,709 --> 01:34:55,440
the supernatural isn't supposed to

2224
01:34:59,570 --> 01:34:57,719
happen but it does happen

2225
01:35:01,550 --> 01:34:59,580
that's why I think it's still worth

2226
01:35:04,070 --> 01:35:01,560
pursuing because it keeps happening

2227
01:35:06,350 --> 01:35:04,080
people keep seeing these things like

2228
01:35:08,930 --> 01:35:06,360
whether they're beings or archetypes

2229
01:35:10,550 --> 01:35:08,940
it's like we've never been rid of the

2230
01:35:12,530 --> 01:35:10,560
hairy man we've never been rid of the

2231
01:35:14,330 --> 01:35:12,540
lights in the sky we've never been rid

2232
01:35:16,729 --> 01:35:14,340
of the

2233
01:35:19,189 --> 01:35:16,739
um the the presence the Shadow the

2234
01:35:21,470 --> 01:35:19,199
Specter you know so

2235
01:35:25,669 --> 01:35:21,480
who's your favorite who's your favorite

2236
01:35:29,149 --> 01:35:26,830
um

2237
01:35:34,430 --> 01:35:29,159
100 percent

2238
01:35:36,530 --> 01:35:34,440
I I have some like weird like I have

2239
01:35:39,950 --> 01:35:36,540
like will always have like a weird

2240
01:35:42,410 --> 01:35:39,960
nascent like I did a I did like a really

2241
01:35:46,070 --> 01:35:42,420
early like School design project of the

2242
01:35:46,729 --> 01:35:46,080
US like illustration of the S4 saucer

2243
01:35:49,729 --> 01:35:46,739
um

2244
01:35:51,110 --> 01:35:49,739
I bought when I found that Bob was like

2245
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:51,120
still around and you could buy stuff

2246
01:35:57,350 --> 01:35:54,719
from his website like I bought his S4

2247
01:35:59,870 --> 01:35:57,360
like saucer print it looks like sign for

2248
01:36:03,410 --> 01:35:59,880
like 30 bucks and

2249
01:36:05,390 --> 01:36:03,420
um incredible and I got a spider like um

2250
01:36:07,250 --> 01:36:05,400
one of those things you can it's a toy

2251
01:36:09,709 --> 01:36:07,260
that you can watch Adam's splitting in

2252
01:36:13,490 --> 01:36:09,719
it he solves those

2253
01:36:17,030 --> 01:36:13,500
um Bob just lived I have printouts

2254
01:36:19,550 --> 01:36:17,040
again picture like very young me trying

2255
01:36:22,070 --> 01:36:19,560
to write this research paper Printing

2256
01:36:23,689 --> 01:36:22,080
out Glenn Campbell's Groom Lake Desert

2257
01:36:27,709 --> 01:36:23,699
Rat

2258
01:36:29,689 --> 01:36:27,719
and I still have like a Sheaf of black

2259
01:36:31,669 --> 01:36:29,699
and white laser jet pronouns of that

2260
01:36:35,229 --> 01:36:31,679
whole thing that's awesome

2261
01:36:38,870 --> 01:36:35,239
that whole Mythos just lived in my head

2262
01:36:41,149 --> 01:36:38,880
for such a long time that I have some

2263
01:36:44,209 --> 01:36:41,159
like weird affection for it so he is my

2264
01:36:46,250 --> 01:36:44,219
favorite UFO ball shooter man

2265
01:36:48,169 --> 01:36:46,260
if anyone's interested in those uh and

2266
01:36:50,149 --> 01:36:48,179
all that Desert Rat stuff that is on the

2267
01:36:52,010 --> 01:36:50,159
archives for The Unexplained

2268
01:36:55,129 --> 01:36:52,020
um I'll save down there so you can print

2269
01:36:57,229 --> 01:36:55,139
it out too maybe just Jay Glenn and I

2270
01:36:58,729 --> 01:36:57,239
were mutuals on Twitter for a long time

2271
01:37:02,390 --> 01:36:58,739
he used to be on there but I think he

2272
01:37:04,070 --> 01:37:02,400
got sick of my [\h__\h] as it happens over

2273
01:37:05,870 --> 01:37:04,080
um

2274
01:37:08,390 --> 01:37:05,880
over time

2275
01:37:12,709 --> 01:37:08,400
yeah the Twitter feed not safe for work

2276
01:37:15,229 --> 01:37:12,719
anymore yeah I'm sorry but um and my

2277
01:37:17,330 --> 01:37:15,239
favorite my favorite guy that no one

2278
01:37:19,570 --> 01:37:17,340
reads that everybody should check out is

2279
01:37:21,649 --> 01:37:19,580
Scott Rago

2280
01:37:25,070 --> 01:37:21,659
he wrote

2281
01:37:26,990 --> 01:37:25,080
um like 30 books he he was murdered

2282
01:37:29,689 --> 01:37:27,000
under mysterious circumstances although

2283
01:37:30,950 --> 01:37:29,699
I think it was just crime but it kind of

2284
01:37:35,270 --> 01:37:30,960
adds that

2285
01:37:37,070 --> 01:37:35,280
um what did he know oh yeah and some of

2286
01:37:39,530 --> 01:37:37,080
this stuff is still in print

2287
01:37:42,290 --> 01:37:39,540
um some of it is not that I'm kind of

2288
01:37:45,890 --> 01:37:42,300
like if anybody has an inexpensive copy

2289
01:37:47,810 --> 01:37:45,900
of uh ESPN your pet that you'd be

2290
01:37:48,770 --> 01:37:47,820
willing to let go oh you can find me on

2291
01:37:52,010 --> 01:37:48,780
Twitter

2292
01:37:54,430 --> 01:37:52,020
incredible like seriously yeah seriously

2293
01:37:56,030 --> 01:37:54,440
seriously

2294
01:37:57,050 --> 01:37:56,040
so

2295
01:37:59,209 --> 01:37:57,060
um

2296
01:38:00,229 --> 01:37:59,219
he has a lot of he has a lot of good

2297
01:38:04,490 --> 01:38:00,239
stuff

2298
01:38:06,590 --> 01:38:04,500
um to say and I think that um one of the

2299
01:38:10,430 --> 01:38:06,600
things though I I think one of the

2300
01:38:11,450 --> 01:38:10,440
things that's a core for me and this is

2301
01:38:15,290 --> 01:38:11,460
again where I had a little bit of

2302
01:38:16,970 --> 01:38:15,300
trouble with uh Castro is we're not it

2303
01:38:19,430 --> 01:38:16,980
like

2304
01:38:20,689 --> 01:38:19,440
um even if it's just us and um I think

2305
01:38:22,070 --> 01:38:20,699
there's a part of me that was reading

2306
01:38:23,990 --> 01:38:22,080
that and got a little bit depressed

2307
01:38:26,030 --> 01:38:24,000
because I'm like well if this is if this

2308
01:38:29,330 --> 01:38:26,040
is all us I'm like it can't all be us it

2309
01:38:31,729 --> 01:38:29,340
has to be the demiurge but

2310
01:38:33,410 --> 01:38:31,739
um it made me it's like if I buy a cash

2311
01:38:36,470 --> 01:38:33,420
trip I might inadvertently become an

2312
01:38:38,810 --> 01:38:36,480
Gnostic I feel like it's sort of

2313
01:38:41,590 --> 01:38:38,820
um it's a slippery slope it is I feel

2314
01:38:47,629 --> 01:38:44,750
yeah I'm sorry no go ahead go ahead okay

2315
01:38:49,430 --> 01:38:47,639
I'd love to ask you your thoughts about

2316
01:38:51,550 --> 01:38:49,440
uh considering your knowledge of

2317
01:38:54,830 --> 01:38:51,560
advertising the

2318
01:38:56,629 --> 01:38:54,840
role of Art and creativity in the realm

2319
01:38:59,629 --> 01:38:56,639
of uh influence or even the

2320
01:39:01,910 --> 01:38:59,639
weaponization of spirituality

2321
01:39:03,590 --> 01:39:01,920
um and thinking of emperor Constantine

2322
01:39:05,629 --> 01:39:03,600
talking about seeing the cross in the

2323
01:39:06,590 --> 01:39:05,639
sky using that as a Battle Cry for his

2324
01:39:08,090 --> 01:39:06,600
troops

2325
01:39:10,250 --> 01:39:08,100
um you know obviously they used all

2326
01:39:12,530 --> 01:39:10,260
varieties of supernatural phenomena like

2327
01:39:14,810 --> 01:39:12,540
bird reading and stuff like that in the

2328
01:39:16,669 --> 01:39:14,820
modern day uh you mentioned Bernays

2329
01:39:18,649 --> 01:39:16,679
earlier uh World War One social

2330
01:39:21,290 --> 01:39:18,659
scientist propagandist and then after

2331
01:39:23,870 --> 01:39:21,300
the war he uh went into the commercial

2332
01:39:25,910 --> 01:39:23,880
industry and became the pioneer of

2333
01:39:27,410 --> 01:39:25,920
developing the advertising campaigns

2334
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:27,420
related to getting the women to begin

2335
01:39:31,610 --> 01:39:29,760
smoking cigarettes

2336
01:39:33,530 --> 01:39:31,620
um so you know that that subject's close

2337
01:39:34,850 --> 01:39:33,540
to me uh World War One propaganda my

2338
01:39:37,430 --> 01:39:34,860
great grandfather was a visual artist

2339
01:39:39,350 --> 01:39:37,440
who then became uh he did backgrounds

2340
01:39:41,930 --> 01:39:39,360
for uh plays and then he started doing

2341
01:39:44,570 --> 01:39:41,940
propaganda in World War One

2342
01:39:45,590 --> 01:39:44,580
um and uh you know so so you as an

2343
01:39:46,729 --> 01:39:45,600
artist

2344
01:39:48,770 --> 01:39:46,739
um sort of

2345
01:39:50,390 --> 01:39:48,780
you know that's essential to make money

2346
01:39:52,910 --> 01:39:50,400
I have my uncle a visual artist he

2347
01:39:55,790 --> 01:39:52,920
worked in advertising as well how do you

2348
01:39:58,189 --> 01:39:55,800
sort of process that experience of um

2349
01:40:00,110 --> 01:39:58,199
like the role of influence where an

2350
01:40:02,270 --> 01:40:00,120
artist is so intimately connected to

2351
01:40:03,350 --> 01:40:02,280
producing an intended effect in the

2352
01:40:05,450 --> 01:40:03,360
audience

2353
01:40:07,129 --> 01:40:05,460
how do you um sort of process that

2354
01:40:09,550 --> 01:40:07,139
experience of applying such a beautiful

2355
01:40:12,169 --> 01:40:09,560
thing into sort of a monetization

2356
01:40:13,669 --> 01:40:12,179
process uh you know with no negative

2357
01:40:16,310 --> 01:40:13,679
judgment or whatsoever I'm just very

2358
01:40:17,030 --> 01:40:16,320
curious about that experience itself I

2359
01:40:21,950 --> 01:40:17,040
have

2360
01:40:28,030 --> 01:40:21,960
ways to look at it

2361
01:40:31,370 --> 01:40:28,040
um the first thing I will say is I am

2362
01:40:35,209 --> 01:40:31,380
fascinated by the mechanics of it I'm

2363
01:40:37,669 --> 01:40:35,219
fascinated by the uh the craft i'm

2364
01:40:40,250 --> 01:40:37,679
fascinated about learning what works and

2365
01:40:40,930 --> 01:40:40,260
what doesn't and fascinated

2366
01:40:44,930 --> 01:40:40,940
um

2367
01:40:46,910 --> 01:40:44,940
you know learning about using visuals in

2368
01:40:50,149 --> 01:40:46,920
applied psychology

2369
01:40:52,310 --> 01:40:50,159
for influence on people the second thing

2370
01:40:55,129 --> 01:40:52,320
I'll say I've never done

2371
01:40:59,030 --> 01:40:55,139
um never worked for anybody that crappy

2372
01:41:03,110 --> 01:40:59,040
uh I feel like I have a pretty

2373
01:41:05,149 --> 01:41:03,120
clean conscience when I can go to bed

2374
01:41:06,830 --> 01:41:05,159
tonight saying I've never tried to

2375
01:41:11,030 --> 01:41:06,840
convince

2376
01:41:14,209 --> 01:41:11,040
um anybody to do anything that I I would

2377
01:41:16,490 --> 01:41:14,219
say is generally destructive like I

2378
01:41:17,390 --> 01:41:16,500
never worked on

2379
01:41:20,510 --> 01:41:17,400
um

2380
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:20,520
any kind of beauty products I've never

2381
01:41:27,649 --> 01:41:23,280
worked in politics I've done a lot of

2382
01:41:30,229 --> 01:41:27,659
Industrials so some of that stuff can

2383
01:41:32,270 --> 01:41:30,239
get a touch I've done a couple things

2384
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:32,280
that were gross

2385
01:41:38,149 --> 01:41:35,040
um that relate to the oil and gas

2386
01:41:41,149 --> 01:41:38,159
industry but then I also did free work

2387
01:41:43,370 --> 01:41:41,159
um for uh 350.org for their

2388
01:41:45,229 --> 01:41:43,380
anti-fracking campaigns

2389
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:45,239
um try to balance the scales a little

2390
01:41:50,090 --> 01:41:48,000
bit generally speaking

2391
01:41:52,990 --> 01:41:50,100
um I'm also

2392
01:41:55,430 --> 01:41:53,000
for the last couple years

2393
01:41:59,450 --> 01:41:55,440
went in-house somewhere where I'm not

2394
01:42:02,870 --> 01:41:59,460
doing anything odious so I think it's up

2395
01:42:07,609 --> 01:42:02,880
I think it's up to us as individual

2396
01:42:10,550 --> 01:42:07,619
practitioners to not succumb to like

2397
01:42:13,729 --> 01:42:10,560
Love Of Love of Money to the point where

2398
01:42:14,990 --> 01:42:13,739
we're we're working for the bad guys I

2399
01:42:18,410 --> 01:42:15,000
also

2400
01:42:22,550 --> 01:42:18,420
um for a long time though my I think my

2401
01:42:24,770 --> 01:42:22,560
issue that I I have to resolve is that

2402
01:42:27,530 --> 01:42:24,780
other than the stuff I know I have as a

2403
01:42:30,229 --> 01:42:27,540
personal weakness to buy because I would

2404
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:30,239
you know there are triggers there

2405
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:33,730
um I actually think this stuff is

2406
01:42:36,950 --> 01:42:34,320
[Music]

2407
01:42:40,250 --> 01:42:38,450
I don't know how to do I don't know how

2408
01:42:42,109 --> 01:42:40,260
to say this exactly I think we have to

2409
01:42:44,930 --> 01:42:42,119
it's incumbent upon all of us as

2410
01:42:47,750 --> 01:42:44,940
individuals to cultivate a robust

2411
01:42:50,390 --> 01:42:47,760
personal identity that for lack of a

2412
01:42:52,850 --> 01:42:50,400
better way to put it can take a punch

2413
01:42:55,070 --> 01:42:52,860
um my psyche needs to be able to stand

2414
01:42:57,410 --> 01:42:55,080
up to

2415
01:43:00,890 --> 01:42:57,420
advertising but it also needs to be able

2416
01:43:05,649 --> 01:43:00,900
to stand up to my fellow person and

2417
01:43:09,109 --> 01:43:05,659
um you know we have now I feel like uh

2418
01:43:12,350 --> 01:43:09,119
advertising is less Insidious than viral

2419
01:43:13,310 --> 01:43:12,360
ideas that are propagated like you know

2420
01:43:17,209 --> 01:43:13,320
like

2421
01:43:21,169 --> 01:43:17,219
everybody can do a psyop now and I am I

2422
01:43:22,970 --> 01:43:21,179
I feel like more more destruction is

2423
01:43:26,689 --> 01:43:22,980
being

2424
01:43:29,090 --> 01:43:26,699
rained down on that front than there is

2425
01:43:31,930 --> 01:43:29,100
through trying to get people to like

2426
01:43:34,970 --> 01:43:31,940
purchase the Cosmetic or something

2427
01:43:36,950 --> 01:43:34,980
not that that all that stuff is great

2428
01:43:38,030 --> 01:43:36,960
but I don't

2429
01:43:40,490 --> 01:43:38,040
um

2430
01:43:41,930 --> 01:43:40,500
I mean ideally it's a it's a thing but

2431
01:43:43,370 --> 01:43:41,940
nobody's gonna do it nobody's gonna work

2432
01:43:44,990 --> 01:43:43,380
on themselves and nobody's going to say

2433
01:43:45,770 --> 01:43:45,000
no to the money

2434
01:43:49,729 --> 01:43:45,780
um

2435
01:43:52,490 --> 01:43:49,739
and I'm trying to so there's just like

2436
01:43:54,530 --> 01:43:52,500
somewhat since I'm not

2437
01:43:57,109 --> 01:43:54,540
um I'm not indifferent to

2438
01:43:58,910 --> 01:43:57,119
the effects I can have on others at

2439
01:44:01,729 --> 01:43:58,920
least I'm not trying to get you to do

2440
01:44:06,709 --> 01:44:04,669
did I Jay I love what you're saying

2441
01:44:09,050 --> 01:44:06,719
um it reminds me a lot of this idea of

2442
01:44:10,970 --> 01:44:09,060
psychosecurity that basically

2443
01:44:13,490 --> 01:44:10,980
personalities become Downstream

2444
01:44:16,370 --> 01:44:13,500
artifacts of these algorithmic Marketing

2445
01:44:19,010 --> 01:44:16,380
Systems on different platforms and that

2446
01:44:20,930 --> 01:44:19,020
you know the personality that originally

2447
01:44:22,729 --> 01:44:20,940
engages with these systems like Facebook

2448
01:44:25,189 --> 01:44:22,739
or Twitter

2449
01:44:28,430 --> 01:44:25,199
um kind of dictates the terms of that

2450
01:44:31,550 --> 01:44:28,440
engagement but over time the human

2451
01:44:34,010 --> 01:44:31,560
personality basically just becomes the

2452
01:44:38,090 --> 01:44:34,020
output of those systems you know based

2453
01:44:42,109 --> 01:44:38,100
on recommendation engines or memes or

2454
01:44:45,830 --> 01:44:42,119
viral content or targeted advertising

2455
01:44:48,530 --> 01:44:45,840
and it feels like at this point it's

2456
01:44:50,870 --> 01:44:48,540
woven into the fabric of the technology

2457
01:44:52,970 --> 01:44:50,880
and communication tools that we use I

2458
01:44:55,490 --> 01:44:52,980
can't think of accepting maybe direct

2459
01:44:57,950 --> 01:44:55,500
phone calls I can't think of

2460
01:45:01,070 --> 01:44:57,960
I mean actually including phone calls I

2461
01:45:03,410 --> 01:45:01,080
can't think of any communication mediums

2462
01:45:06,350 --> 01:45:03,420
that we have between people that isn't

2463
01:45:09,590 --> 01:45:06,360
basically totally overburdened by

2464
01:45:11,810 --> 01:45:09,600
capitalist debris whether it's marketing

2465
01:45:13,310 --> 01:45:11,820
or advertising or junk mail or spam

2466
01:45:15,109 --> 01:45:13,320
phone calls like the only time I answer

2467
01:45:17,930 --> 01:45:15,119
my phone is if I schedule a phone call

2468
01:45:18,709 --> 01:45:17,940
with a friend otherwise it's garbage

2469
01:45:21,890 --> 01:45:18,719
um

2470
01:45:24,169 --> 01:45:21,900
it feels like it's it's all just become

2471
01:45:26,149 --> 01:45:24,179
Marketing Systems and I say this by the

2472
01:45:27,830 --> 01:45:26,159
way as someone who works in algorithmic

2473
01:45:29,750 --> 01:45:27,840
marketing it is a marketing science

2474
01:45:32,810 --> 01:45:29,760
professional

2475
01:45:34,430 --> 01:45:32,820
it's difficult to manage I think

2476
01:45:36,050 --> 01:45:34,440
um

2477
01:45:40,250 --> 01:45:36,060
the

2478
01:45:41,930 --> 01:45:40,260
I think we were less susceptible

2479
01:45:45,290 --> 01:45:41,940
um

2480
01:45:47,629 --> 01:45:45,300
pre-internet I think the issue I feel

2481
01:45:50,450 --> 01:45:47,639
like that the issues that I have are

2482
01:45:52,250 --> 01:45:50,460
that I hate to say this but

2483
01:45:54,770 --> 01:45:52,260
um just from

2484
01:45:57,290 --> 01:45:54,780
from an evolutionary standpoint we're

2485
01:45:59,689 --> 01:45:57,300
quicker to fear and anger because those

2486
01:46:02,629 --> 01:45:59,699
would protect us from a charging

2487
01:46:06,470 --> 01:46:02,639
saber-tooth tiger and those are easier

2488
01:46:10,609 --> 01:46:06,480
emotions to elicit than Joy I also feel

2489
01:46:15,050 --> 01:46:10,619
like because of that the way

2490
01:46:19,430 --> 01:46:15,060
our entire media landscape is now

2491
01:46:24,709 --> 01:46:22,669
it you know it's gamified and it's the

2492
01:46:27,290 --> 01:46:24,719
best way to get attention is to make

2493
01:46:29,090 --> 01:46:27,300
somebody angry to get the click it's a

2494
01:46:30,109 --> 01:46:29,100
little weird to me because I feel like

2495
01:46:31,250 --> 01:46:30,119
somehow

2496
01:46:33,649 --> 01:46:31,260
um

2497
01:46:35,390 --> 01:46:33,659
the whole ecosystem is false but we're

2498
01:46:37,729 --> 01:46:35,400
all locked into it because that's just

2499
01:46:39,290 --> 01:46:37,739
driving the economy now I don't think

2500
01:46:41,149 --> 01:46:39,300
things with

2501
01:46:43,609 --> 01:46:41,159
um

2502
01:46:45,470 --> 01:46:43,619
when I you know when I'm working and

2503
01:46:47,510 --> 01:46:45,480
doing something I'm doing a lot of

2504
01:46:49,310 --> 01:46:47,520
integrated campaigns so I've got there's

2505
01:46:51,770 --> 01:46:49,320
still some print there's TD there's

2506
01:46:53,390 --> 01:46:51,780
radio there's

2507
01:46:55,189 --> 01:46:53,400
um

2508
01:46:56,689 --> 01:46:55,199
there's digital and the digital is the

2509
01:46:58,850 --> 01:46:56,699
thing everybody gone down to digital

2510
01:47:00,890 --> 01:46:58,860
because digital gives the feedback but

2511
01:47:03,470 --> 01:47:00,900
the digital feedback is also what the

2512
01:47:04,910 --> 01:47:03,480
system is reporting and it's a little

2513
01:47:05,510 --> 01:47:04,920
bit

2514
01:47:07,490 --> 01:47:05,520
um

2515
01:47:09,229 --> 01:47:07,500
I'm going to tell you old vets Leah

2516
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:09,239
Prime is Leah Prime

2517
01:47:14,570 --> 01:47:11,760
I just saw that one somebody want to

2518
01:47:16,790 --> 01:47:14,580
know who you were but um everybody wants

2519
01:47:17,689 --> 01:47:16,800
to know who I everybody I feel like the

2520
01:47:20,629 --> 01:47:17,699
um

2521
01:47:23,270 --> 01:47:20,639
the reporting systems are a lot like the

2522
01:47:25,430 --> 01:47:23,280
um the EMF meter where it's like look

2523
01:47:27,350 --> 01:47:25,440
the lights are going off but what does

2524
01:47:28,669 --> 01:47:27,360
that mean what does that actually what

2525
01:47:30,350 --> 01:47:28,679
does that mean and it's like I don't

2526
01:47:32,390 --> 01:47:30,360
know light we want the light to go off

2527
01:47:33,770 --> 01:47:32,400
though so yeah we're gone we're going

2528
01:47:39,290 --> 01:47:33,780
home

2529
01:47:41,930 --> 01:47:39,300
um but I feel like to a large extent

2530
01:47:44,570 --> 01:47:41,940
um the developing that like I like that

2531
01:47:47,689 --> 01:47:44,580
term psycho security that's like but

2532
01:47:50,930 --> 01:47:47,699
that's like getting exercise too not

2533
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:50,940
everybody's doing that you know I

2534
01:47:53,930 --> 01:47:53,330
I don't I think some of that

2535
01:47:54,770 --> 01:47:53,940
[Music]

2536
01:47:56,510 --> 01:47:54,780
um

2537
01:47:58,070 --> 01:47:56,520
like when people talk I said when people

2538
01:47:59,990 --> 01:47:58,080
talk about Aquino they think of like

2539
01:48:02,890 --> 01:48:00,000
Cobra Troopers beaming stuff into your

2540
01:48:05,330 --> 01:48:02,900
brain and it's it's actually much easier

2541
01:48:08,629 --> 01:48:05,340
right you don't actually need the

2542
01:48:12,109 --> 01:48:08,639
whiz-bang super sophisticated stuff not

2543
01:48:14,750 --> 01:48:12,119
at all and uh I read

2544
01:48:18,169 --> 01:48:14,760
um if you read George lakeoff

2545
01:48:19,609 --> 01:48:18,179
no I haven't okay lakov's great lakov um

2546
01:48:21,590 --> 01:48:19,619
what do you recommend by him I've been

2547
01:48:23,570 --> 01:48:21,600
keeping a list of everything the

2548
01:48:27,109 --> 01:48:23,580
political mind

2549
01:48:31,129 --> 01:48:27,119
um lakov talks a lot about how this is

2550
01:48:33,890 --> 01:48:31,139
related to neurobiology and how we end

2551
01:48:37,850 --> 01:48:33,900
up the down those Downstream artifacts

2552
01:48:40,910 --> 01:48:37,860
become our actual core identity that's

2553
01:48:43,070 --> 01:48:40,920
and that's when when your core identity

2554
01:48:45,470 --> 01:48:43,080
is threatened even on that psychological

2555
01:48:47,209 --> 01:48:45,480
level you actually are reacting as

2556
01:48:50,290 --> 01:48:47,219
though I was like somebody was chasing

2557
01:48:55,970 --> 01:48:53,209
yeah but it's like so now it's like so

2558
01:48:58,669 --> 01:48:55,980
now your your entire core identity that

2559
01:49:00,470 --> 01:48:58,679
you'll um fight as a means of survival

2560
01:49:02,689 --> 01:49:00,480
for is based on those Downstream

2561
01:49:05,570 --> 01:49:02,699
artifacts uh sounds like UFO people

2562
01:49:06,590 --> 01:49:05,580
advertising and hey clicks the UFO

2563
01:49:09,229 --> 01:49:06,600
people

2564
01:49:11,689 --> 01:49:09,239
um well I also feel like we're we have

2565
01:49:13,609 --> 01:49:11,699
hit a weird point in the 20th century

2566
01:49:15,709 --> 01:49:13,619
and because when you're studying these

2567
01:49:20,810 --> 01:49:15,719
art movements

2568
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:20,820
um this is like the disillusion of all

2569
01:49:25,189 --> 01:49:23,280
of these things data surrealism all the

2570
01:49:27,830 --> 01:49:25,199
goals all of this comes out of the

2571
01:49:30,169 --> 01:49:27,840
disillusion of the failure of

2572
01:49:34,490 --> 01:49:30,179
Institutions to keep us out of two world

2573
01:49:37,010 --> 01:49:34,500
wars yep and we don't

2574
01:49:38,629 --> 01:49:37,020
we I feel like we gave up a lot of

2575
01:49:40,910 --> 01:49:38,639
crappy systems that were supposed to

2576
01:49:42,530 --> 01:49:40,920
tell us who we were and what we were

2577
01:49:44,510 --> 01:49:42,540
supposed to do but we didn't replace

2578
01:49:46,970 --> 01:49:44,520
them with anything really good either

2579
01:49:50,209 --> 01:49:46,980
and we're just kind of floating so some

2580
01:49:50,990 --> 01:49:50,219
of us turn out okay some of us

2581
01:49:54,050 --> 01:49:51,000
um

2582
01:49:58,010 --> 01:49:54,060
join a cult like some of us get into MLM

2583
01:50:01,070 --> 01:49:58,020
like it's just a real it's like Pakistan

2584
01:50:02,450 --> 01:50:01,080
Pepe the Frog yeah we're just well

2585
01:50:03,950 --> 01:50:02,460
there's a lot of there's a lot of bad

2586
01:50:05,870 --> 01:50:03,960
stuff out there

2587
01:50:08,689 --> 01:50:05,880
but um

2588
01:50:11,450 --> 01:50:08,699
a uh I'm not gonna say you can cure it

2589
01:50:12,770 --> 01:50:11,460
but I feel like again I feel like any

2590
01:50:14,750 --> 01:50:12,780
kind of deliberate conscious thought

2591
01:50:17,330 --> 01:50:14,760
where I'm saying like go

2592
01:50:18,830 --> 01:50:17,340
go to the go to the museum and don't

2593
01:50:20,330 --> 01:50:18,840
just proceed visually proceed

2594
01:50:23,390 --> 01:50:20,340
consciously

2595
01:50:25,550 --> 01:50:23,400
it's help it's just it's not going to

2596
01:50:27,189 --> 01:50:25,560
cure you but it's getting off the couch

2597
01:50:29,450 --> 01:50:27,199
going for a walk

2598
01:50:30,649 --> 01:50:29,460
metaphorically it's a little exercise

2599
01:50:33,890 --> 01:50:30,659
for you

2600
01:50:36,350 --> 01:50:33,900
when uh Brian sentis was on uh a little

2601
01:50:39,770 --> 01:50:36,360
while ago now yeah talked about a

2602
01:50:42,109 --> 01:50:39,780
process that can happen in uh belief or

2603
01:50:43,910 --> 01:50:42,119
uh you know a faith-based communities or

2604
01:50:45,590 --> 01:50:43,920
uh you know even just any marginalized

2605
01:50:48,350 --> 01:50:45,600
Community really where

2606
01:50:50,330 --> 01:50:48,360
uh if the community is being ostracized

2607
01:50:52,729 --> 01:50:50,340
and villainized and sort of threatened

2608
01:50:55,310 --> 01:50:52,739
the beliefs sort of cohere increasingly

2609
01:50:56,629 --> 01:50:55,320
towards the central theme and he talked

2610
01:50:58,790 --> 01:50:56,639
a little bit about how that might have

2611
01:51:01,129 --> 01:50:58,800
been influential in the change from

2612
01:51:03,709 --> 01:51:01,139
pantheism to monotheism

2613
01:51:05,689 --> 01:51:03,719
have you um

2614
01:51:07,970 --> 01:51:05,699
in your experience with the supernatural

2615
01:51:10,370 --> 01:51:07,980
community and things like that what has

2616
01:51:13,010 --> 01:51:10,380
your been your take on this sort of

2617
01:51:15,649 --> 01:51:13,020
process where it seemed in some ways

2618
01:51:18,290 --> 01:51:15,659
like all of it has merged together in

2619
01:51:20,510 --> 01:51:18,300
the last like 60 years we've touched on

2620
01:51:22,609 --> 01:51:20,520
it very briefly of the valet style and

2621
01:51:25,310 --> 01:51:22,619
things like that

2622
01:51:27,649 --> 01:51:25,320
I'm sorry yeah yeah please go uh you

2623
01:51:30,410 --> 01:51:27,659
know I think that

2624
01:51:33,290 --> 01:51:30,420
I actually think though

2625
01:51:38,229 --> 01:51:35,750
I think that ties into

2626
01:51:41,570 --> 01:51:38,239
Young's basic concept of

2627
01:51:44,689 --> 01:51:41,580
synchronicity and I think that

2628
01:51:46,669 --> 01:51:44,699
one thing I have experienced

2629
01:51:48,490 --> 01:51:46,679
um which I don't necessarily call call

2630
01:51:53,330 --> 01:51:48,500
this uh

2631
01:51:54,830 --> 01:51:53,340
supernaturally that but um we as you

2632
01:51:56,990 --> 01:51:54,840
pursue this stuff

2633
01:51:59,209 --> 01:51:57,000
synchronicity does occur

2634
01:52:02,330 --> 01:51:59,219
and

2635
01:52:05,149 --> 01:52:02,340
um I found that in really

2636
01:52:06,830 --> 01:52:05,159
um funny ways and it's sort of

2637
01:52:11,090 --> 01:52:06,840
um things that are anecdotal but like

2638
01:52:12,830 --> 01:52:11,100
like frankly I feel like right now

2639
01:52:14,510 --> 01:52:12,840
um starting

2640
01:52:16,550 --> 01:52:14,520
um these ideas I've had have been

2641
01:52:19,669 --> 01:52:16,560
percolating for a long time but I I

2642
01:52:21,109 --> 01:52:19,679
bought a bunch of books without it's not

2643
01:52:22,430 --> 01:52:21,119
like I'm buying these books for research

2644
01:52:24,770 --> 01:52:22,440
I'm just like I'm buying books because

2645
01:52:26,270 --> 01:52:24,780
I'm buying books and then I'm reading

2646
01:52:28,729 --> 01:52:26,280
through them and I'm like here's this

2647
01:52:30,950 --> 01:52:28,739
connection of you know I got I got

2648
01:52:32,990 --> 01:52:30,960
theosity I got my telepathy I got my

2649
01:52:35,689 --> 01:52:33,000
circles my squares my triangles like

2650
01:52:36,430 --> 01:52:35,699
there's there's these

2651
01:52:40,790 --> 01:52:36,440
um

2652
01:52:42,709 --> 01:52:40,800
interconnected data points and it's

2653
01:52:45,229 --> 01:52:42,719
personally it becomes personally

2654
01:52:46,370 --> 01:52:45,239
meaningful because basically it's like

2655
01:52:47,810 --> 01:52:46,380
this

2656
01:52:49,609 --> 01:52:47,820
um

2657
01:52:50,990 --> 01:52:49,619
it's the mashed potatoes in Close

2658
01:52:52,209 --> 01:52:51,000
Encounters you're like this means

2659
01:52:55,310 --> 01:52:52,219
something

2660
01:52:58,250 --> 01:52:55,320
and I think

2661
01:52:59,990 --> 01:52:58,260
as people have been talking more too I

2662
01:53:02,330 --> 01:53:00,000
think just a lot of these communities

2663
01:53:05,030 --> 01:53:02,340
don't talk like Bigfoot people aren't

2664
01:53:07,189 --> 01:53:05,040
like let's go to the thing with the

2665
01:53:09,530 --> 01:53:07,199
witches like let's go you know or like

2666
01:53:12,890 --> 01:53:09,540
let's go hang out with the UFO people

2667
01:53:15,350 --> 01:53:12,900
it's it um I I think more there's more

2668
01:53:16,370 --> 01:53:15,360
cross-pollination and as a result of

2669
01:53:18,470 --> 01:53:16,380
that

2670
01:53:21,050 --> 01:53:18,480
um there's there's data share there's

2671
01:53:23,450 --> 01:53:21,060
people are seeing similarities but also

2672
01:53:26,810 --> 01:53:23,460
the synchronicities are are increasing

2673
01:53:29,330 --> 01:53:26,820
and that's sort of I know I hope you

2674
01:53:34,010 --> 01:53:29,340
know it's like I said not peanut butter

2675
01:53:35,930 --> 01:53:34,020
a hidden ecology but I uh

2676
01:53:37,310 --> 01:53:35,940
I think that's what's happening with

2677
01:53:40,010 --> 01:53:37,320
that

2678
01:53:41,750 --> 01:53:40,020
um but again like I think

2679
01:53:42,830 --> 01:53:41,760
um everybody's you know we're all

2680
01:53:44,090 --> 01:53:42,840
Seekers

2681
01:53:48,470 --> 01:53:44,100
um some people get derailed

2682
01:53:50,270 --> 01:53:48,480
unfortunately some people are uh in a

2683
01:53:53,090 --> 01:53:50,280
really good place and they're I think

2684
01:53:55,430 --> 01:53:53,100
they're I talk to people that have

2685
01:53:58,250 --> 01:53:55,440
really good models for how they view

2686
01:54:00,590 --> 01:53:58,260
this stuff you know again I call out um

2687
01:54:02,870 --> 01:54:00,600
the liminal Earth crew they have good

2688
01:54:05,570 --> 01:54:02,880
way to live interesting ways of looking

2689
01:54:07,129 --> 01:54:05,580
at things that I think are are positive

2690
01:54:09,530 --> 01:54:07,139
and will

2691
01:54:11,870 --> 01:54:09,540
um yield into interesting results as

2692
01:54:14,870 --> 01:54:11,880
long as they keep pursuing them I also

2693
01:54:17,270 --> 01:54:14,880
saw like a big thing on

2694
01:54:19,729 --> 01:54:17,280
um a starseed conference on the timeline

2695
01:54:21,410 --> 01:54:19,739
earlier which is really unfortunate

2696
01:54:24,050 --> 01:54:21,420
mm-hmm

2697
01:54:25,970 --> 01:54:24,060
you know is that stuff gets turned into

2698
01:54:29,090 --> 01:54:25,980
an alt-right Gateway

2699
01:54:31,310 --> 01:54:29,100
um because people are seeking some

2700
01:54:33,350 --> 01:54:31,320
meaning I also think with this stuff now

2701
01:54:35,810 --> 01:54:33,360
though we're in again we're in like

2702
01:54:37,970 --> 01:54:35,820
another we've had like 20 years really

2703
01:54:40,609 --> 01:54:37,980
unprecedented system failure which I

2704
01:54:44,470 --> 01:54:40,619
think is why you know witchcraft is

2705
01:54:48,790 --> 01:54:44,480
becoming popular it's like rather than

2706
01:54:50,330 --> 01:54:48,800
invoke uh the intercession of this deity

2707
01:54:52,490 --> 01:54:50,340
will

2708
01:54:55,310 --> 01:54:52,500
um I'll do it myself

2709
01:54:58,910 --> 01:54:55,320
you know like

2710
01:55:01,250 --> 01:54:58,920
or American than that right or or I'll

2711
01:55:04,129 --> 01:55:01,260
enter or I'll

2712
01:55:07,790 --> 01:55:04,139
or going back to

2713
01:55:09,890 --> 01:55:07,800
um the pantheistic gods I'll go with a

2714
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:09,900
uh transactional deity because that's

2715
01:55:13,669 --> 01:55:11,690
something I can relate to

2716
01:55:16,790 --> 01:55:13,679
[Music]

2717
01:55:18,010 --> 01:55:16,800
fantastic so Jay we are coming up at the

2718
01:55:20,510 --> 01:55:18,020
top of the hour

2719
01:55:22,370 --> 01:55:20,520
this this was amazing

2720
01:55:25,070 --> 01:55:22,380
um this is a great conversation thank

2721
01:55:27,290 --> 01:55:25,080
you love everything we covered uh I have

2722
01:55:28,990 --> 01:55:27,300
a book list a mile long which this is

2723
01:55:31,370 --> 01:55:29,000
one of my favorites me delighted yeah

2724
01:55:35,149 --> 01:55:31,380
amazing thank you we'd love to have you

2725
01:55:36,530 --> 01:55:35,159
back anytime sure sure and I want to

2726
01:55:38,570 --> 01:55:36,540
stay in touch with you

2727
01:55:41,629 --> 01:55:38,580
um I I want to look more into the uh the

2728
01:55:43,850 --> 01:55:41,639
EVP or the EMF Origins a bit okay yeah

2729
01:55:45,830 --> 01:55:43,860
which is what I find with you yeah if I

2730
01:55:47,030 --> 01:55:45,840
if I when I buy those papers I'll let

2731
01:55:49,910 --> 01:55:47,040
you know if there's anything in there

2732
01:55:51,890 --> 01:55:49,920
right yeah so go ahead

2733
01:55:54,530 --> 01:55:51,900
incredible

2734
01:55:57,109 --> 01:55:54,540
um so before we boot you off the stream

2735
01:55:58,129 --> 01:55:57,119
where can people find you find me on

2736
01:56:03,050 --> 01:55:58,139
Twitter

2737
01:56:05,090 --> 01:56:03,060
ill-fated electronic music project that

2738
01:56:08,090 --> 01:56:05,100
was started like 10 years ago never

2739
01:56:10,669 --> 01:56:08,100
finished but the handle stuck and

2740
01:56:14,030 --> 01:56:10,679
um I will occasionally tweet out links

2741
01:56:17,450 --> 01:56:14,040
to my blog which is going very slowly

2742
01:56:20,510 --> 01:56:17,460
which is uh some idea.blogspot.com

2743
01:56:22,850 --> 01:56:20,520
sweet beautiful Jay thanks again so much

2744
01:56:25,250 --> 01:56:22,860
thank you for having me thank you so

2745
01:56:26,450 --> 01:56:25,260
much everybody take care avoid the avoid

2746
01:56:31,550 --> 01:56:26,460
the deaf cloud

2747
01:56:37,030 --> 01:56:34,070
that's a good one that was a great one

2748
01:56:39,290 --> 01:56:37,040
that was a lot of fun it's so funny

2749
01:56:41,750 --> 01:56:39,300
I like to keep myself on mute because I

2750
01:56:43,790 --> 01:56:41,760
was cracking up the whole time yeah I

2751
01:56:45,890 --> 01:56:43,800
really like these uh uh more like kind

2752
01:56:49,430 --> 01:56:45,900
of academic uh style conversations

2753
01:56:52,970 --> 01:56:49,440
touching on so many uh more broad uh

2754
01:56:54,770 --> 01:56:52,980
yeah me too me too all right Gentlemen

2755
01:56:58,070 --> 01:56:54,780
let's Round Table

2756
01:57:00,709 --> 01:56:58,080
what do people have going on

2757
01:57:03,770 --> 01:57:00,719
it's awesome man just working

2758
01:57:06,229 --> 01:57:03,780
yeah UFO uh world is uh slow these days

2759
01:57:09,290 --> 01:57:06,239
right Lily well yeah there's nothing

2760
01:57:10,850 --> 01:57:09,300
happening balloon shit's going on well I

2761
01:57:11,930 --> 01:57:10,860
guess I hyped up about that for some

2762
01:57:14,629 --> 01:57:11,940
reason

2763
01:57:18,290 --> 01:57:14,639
um but yeah I it's hard for closures

2764
01:57:20,089 --> 01:57:18,300
coming soon yeah right well wake me up

2765
01:57:23,209 --> 01:57:20,099
laughs

2766
01:57:25,910 --> 01:57:23,219
all right so before we part ways

2767
01:57:27,649 --> 01:57:25,920
um next week we are bringing on Jeff

2768
01:57:29,510 --> 01:57:27,659
from strange Recon to talk through

2769
01:57:32,089 --> 01:57:29,520
military Black Ops technology and the

2770
01:57:34,850 --> 01:57:32,099
UFO Community after that

2771
01:57:37,129 --> 01:57:34,860
um on March 1st we'll be welcoming Marco

2772
01:57:39,290 --> 01:57:37,139
Visconti onto the stream

2773
01:57:40,850 --> 01:57:39,300
um he's a you're a European guest so

2774
01:57:43,310 --> 01:57:40,860
we'll be doing a different time I'll

2775
01:57:45,070 --> 01:57:43,320
probably be doing 3 P.M Eastern on March

2776
01:57:47,870 --> 01:57:45,080
1st and he'll be talking about a cultism

2777
01:57:49,550 --> 01:57:47,880
anti-fascism magic and Western esoteric

2778
01:57:51,950 --> 01:57:49,560
Traditions

2779
01:57:53,209 --> 01:57:51,960
um and then just coming down the pike uh

2780
01:57:54,830 --> 01:57:53,219
after that we'll be looking at open

2781
01:57:56,810 --> 01:57:54,840
lines episode so we have some great

2782
01:57:58,550 --> 01:57:56,820
stuff coming up

2783
01:58:01,070 --> 01:57:58,560
um

2784
01:58:03,910 --> 01:58:01,080
yeah excuse does anyone have any parting

2785
01:58:08,870 --> 01:58:03,920
words before we hop off for the evening

2786
01:58:12,490 --> 01:58:08,880
Cowabunga nice yeah wonderful Cowabunga

2787
01:58:16,490 --> 01:58:14,570
I'll be the sweet nice person

2788
01:58:18,589 --> 01:58:16,500
everybody's stay safe out there we love

2789
01:58:20,870 --> 01:58:18,599
you thanks for tuning in and we will see

2790
01:58:22,510 --> 01:58:20,880
you next Wednesday at 9pm isn't that

2791
01:58:30,810 --> 01:58:22,520
what Cowabunga means

2792
01:58:53,630 --> 01:58:51,350
[Music]

2793
01:59:06,830 --> 01:58:53,640
thank you

2794
01:59:16,250 --> 01:59:06,840
[Music]

2795
01:59:16,260 --> 01:59:24,010
foreign